UPDATE SUGGESTIONS: Engineer

[[O]]

Well, I know the engineer received a partial update already, but its questionable if you can even call it that or just game balancing [lv2 and 3 dispensers and teleports].

Thought I would start a thread exclusively for specualtion and ideas concerning the future engineer update [whenever that may be]. We should probably do the same for spies, sniper, soldier, and demo in their own threads.

So list your alternative weapons, advantages, and a balancing trade off. Well, here it goes for the engineers:

1. spy-proof sentry guns: :biggrin: oh yeah. no more strokes because of the constant stress of protecting your SG from those pesky spies. balance trade-off | lvl 2 only [no rockets].
2. buildable cover: ability to build steel plated cover [3 lvls=3 sizes] anywhere on the map. balance trade-off | no nerfs [but obvious open exposure while building or else you wouldnt be building it in the first place] + at least 2 engies required to build [both must be in certain distance from each other and only one will select the item while the other will only be wrench].
3. two-way teleporters: all teleporters are both entrances and exits. helps engies create deep frontline or behind-emeny-lines positions by being able to go back for steel. OR gives teams ability to vary strategy by jumping between two areas. balance trade-off | not upgradable but recharges at a speed between lvl 1 and lvl2 of origignal tele].

1-ALT crit-sentry guns: constant crit sentry. enough said. balance trade-off | lvl 1 only.

So what do you think? let me know know what you think of my ideas and lets hear yours as well.

PS-how do i get these ideas to valve?!!

 

[Owlruler]

No offence but why are you doing this now, valve have just confirmed that they are going to be release the sniper pack next not the engineer and also, valve aren't going to only updat the engineers buildable, they will most likely focus on his other weapons.

 

[[O]]

No offence but why are you doing this now, valve have just confirmed that they are going to be release the sniper pack next not the engineer and also, valve aren't going to only update the engineers buildable, they will most likely focus on his other weapons.

none taken i know they jsut announced sniper, but i thought it would be fun to kick around some ideas. we could simply not open a thread for the snipers since its coming out soon and jsut talk about the rest. on the other hand, it may be funner to suggest somethings now for the sniper and see how similar we can get to the actual new weapons once they are released.

 

[A Boojum Snark]

Snipped out from an email I sent to Robin back in August:

My idea is to give the engineer an oil can, replacing the pistol, with which he can trade off a personal damage ability for augmenting those of his sentry gun and teammates. It is not a necessity to use, but if used right it is a powerful option to consider when setting up a defensive emplacement. If all the following ideas were implemented, it could even be a viable replacement for the shotgun.

The primary purpose would be an oil slick on the floor, creating a low-friction zone reducing the enemy's ability to maneuver. He could place a slick strategically around a corner, in such a spot so that opponents would "slide" into sight of his sentry gun, both taking them by surprise and hindering any retreat. Indirect uses could include making a strategic corner harder to round, control points or payloads trickier to stay near, and bridges or elevated locations more hazardous to traverse. Visually, the rich black crude oil could have a team colored shimmer to indicate if it's safe to approach or if one should consider another route.

A possible addition to the oil slick would be to give it an alternate fire function that spreads a non-slippery but flammable oil. This would be ignitable by only the flare gun, and would burn off quickly. The result would be a synergy between the engineer and the pyro, as well as giving more use to the underused flare gun. Flammable oil would be near-clear to all but the pyro, who would see an orange shimmer upon it, "Pyromania-vision", to indicate he can have some extra fun with fire.

Secondarily, the oil can could be used to lubricate the sentry gun, providing it with a partially increased rate of fire. While the sentry is not firing the lubrication would last a fair time, perhaps a minute, before draining off. When firing, it would get used up extremely fast, little more than a second. Since the engineer clearly can not have both a wrench and an oil can out at the same time, he would have to decide between maintaining lubrication for increased speed, or repairing to keep the gun alive.

Last, but certainly not least, giving him oil fits his theme of being a former roughneck, and sliding around on a slick meshes with the "cartoony" feel of TF2.

 

[drp]

Snipped out from an email I sent to Robin back in August:

My idea is to give the engineer an oil can, replacing the pistol, with which he can trade off a personal damage ability for augmenting those of his sentry gun and teammates. It is not a necessity to use, but if used right it is a powerful option to consider when setting up a defensive emplacement. If all the following ideas were implemented, it could even be a viable replacement for the shotgun.

The primary purpose would be an oil slick on the floor, creating a low-friction zone reducing the enemy's ability to maneuver. He could place a slick strategically around a corner, in such a spot so that opponents would "slide" into sight of his sentry gun, both taking them by surprise and hindering any retreat. Indirect uses could include making a strategic corner harder to round, control points or payloads trickier to stay near, and bridges or elevated locations more hazardous to traverse. Visually, the rich black crude oil could have a team colored shimmer to indicate if it's safe to approach or if one should consider another route.

A possible addition to the oil slick would be to give it an alternate fire function that spreads a non-slippery but flammable oil. This would be ignitable by only the flare gun, and would burn off quickly. The result would be a synergy between the engineer and the pyro, as well as giving more use to the underused flare gun. Flammable oil would be near-clear to all but the pyro, who would see an orange shimmer upon it, "Pyromania-vision", to indicate he can have some extra fun with fire.

Secondarily, the oil can could be used to lubricate the sentry gun, providing it with a partially increased rate of fire. While the sentry is not firing the lubrication would last a fair time, perhaps a minute, before draining off. When firing, it would get used up extremely fast, little more than a second. Since the engineer clearly can not have both a wrench and an oil can out at the same time, he would have to decide between maintaining lubrication for increased speed, or repairing to keep the gun alive.

Last, but certainly not least, giving him oil fits his theme of being a former roughneck, and sliding around on a slick meshes with the "cartoony" feel of TF2.

oil slick ftw

 

[Icarus]

Needs more offensive engineering

A wrench that builds things 3 times faster, but upgrades take twice as long.

 

[kwagner]

Replace one of his buildables with a spy detector. (preferably the SG) Idea being two engies could work together, one builds a SG, the other a spy detector. When a disguised/cloak spy is in range of the spy detector his disguise/cloak flickers, giving the SG occasional chances to shoot, and other players a clue about the spy.

Make the spy detectors (SD?) have a very short range (1/4 SG range?) , and 3 abilities levels. Level 1 only flickers spies for players, level 2 flickers spies enough for SG's to fire, level 3 extends range to 1/2 SG range?

'Cause right now a skilled spy can own a huge number of SG's, teleports and dispensors in rapid succession. I've had times it seemed pointless to even try building stuff. A spy detector would help tone that down some.

 

[A Boojum Snark]

'Cause right now a skilled spy can own a huge number of SG's, teleports and dispensors in rapid succession. I've had times it seemed pointless to even try building stuff. A spy detector would help tone that down some.

I think that would be best solved by a re-use delay on the sappers and/or an ammo count for them. Maybe even an ammo "charge", so they can use several in rapid succession if they need, but then have to wait for them to recharge. But I digress, this is about engy toys

 

[kwagner]

I think that would be best solved by a re-use delay on the sappers and/or an ammo count for them. Maybe even an ammo "charge", so they can use several in rapid succession if they need, but then have to wait for them to recharge. But I digress, this is about engy toys

It could also be served by me becoming more competent hitting my target when shooting at spies, but now I'M digressing, heheh.

Oil can could also be interesting if the spots it creates would keep sticky bombs from sticking?

 

[HojoTheGreat]

Yeah, my idea for a while has been a hand-held Spy detector. It would be a big square screen(much like the building/destroy huds) that replaced the Shotgun, and basically gave a heat-signature-type view off the world through it, except Spies would be highlighted. Perhaps it even beeps when a Spy approaches, and maybe could be wall-mounted, losing it's visual ability by being able to alert teammates with the beeping.

The reason for replacing the Shotgun is this would be a relatively strong piece of equipment that would make it hell to play as a Spy. There needs to be a downside to this, and since the Spies would already be compromised it would be too easy for Engies if they could simply pull out their Shotgun and take him out. And this would offer a better use for the pistol.

I should also note that Sentries would still remain blind to discovered Spies unless the usual conditions were met (Spy decloaks or is on fire).

 

[[O]]

amazing ideas guys! hope valve is reading this thread.

i particularly liked the oil idea. it fits teh engie theme perfectly and has a nice tf2-ish twist to it.

lots of anti-spy suggestions lol. i shouldnt be surprised. we do have to consider that you wouldnt want to dumb down this aspect of the spy's ability too much because other than the knife[ which most people havent mastered] this is all hes got].

perhaps as booj said, it would be better to tone down the spies advnatage through the spy himself and not the engie. ammo count is a damn good idea. mine would be a buil- time for the sapper the same way the engies have a build time for their buildigns. its only fitting.

the spy detector without turret detecting idea might be another way of doing it as well.

keep em coming people.

 

[FaTony]

hope valve is reading this thread.

Your hope is very strong and naive but that thing should be mailed to valve.