CP Torment a12

[b4nny]

cp_torment - Underworld 5CP

A 5CP map designed for competitive play.

Ever wondered where mercenaries go during their respawn time?
In the underworld, two demonic entities have enslaved recently-fragged mercenaries to collect souls on their behalf. Whichever army conquers the underworld will be granted reincarnation in the upperworld by their demonic master.

 

[Xbmann]

Hey, I saw you link this on your stream and I thought I would take a look. I noticed that almost all of your map is rendering at once because of how open the skybox is. Even in the alpha stage this may be taxing for some players if their game is trying to render every player / entity in the map. This can be observed with mat_wireframe.

Your issue seems to be that your map isn't sealed closely or separated into different areas with skybox brushes, and instead enclosed in a very large hollow box. The problem with this is that it can throw off the optimization step of compiling because it needs to check visibility in large unused spaces outside and under the map. This is apparent when using mat_leafvis 3 to see how the map is being split up for visibility checks.

Although it's a lot of work, I suggest closely enclosing your map and separating the different areas with skybox brushes to make optimization easier. I also suggest taking a look at the interlopers optimization tutorial sections for visleafs and hints or maybe some of Crash's video tutorials. You don't have to go super in depth with them in alpha but a minimal amount of optimization work will make a big difference for playtesting.

Here is an example of how a finished map uses skybox brushes and hints to separate different areas for optimization (with other tool textures hidden):

 

[b4nny]

Haven't even looked into learning optimization stuff yet so thanks for the tips. So far only been focusing on the geometry. Probably better to start implementing that stuff early though.

 

[Lo-fi Longcat]

Is this intended for 6s or highlander comp?

 

[Niro]

- Some areas of the map are still dark such as a few indoor rooms that make it hard to see players in.

- The func_respawnroomvisualizers are in line with the spawn doors so the textures overlap. Just make the doors thinner.
- You should start doing some forms of map optimisation, even if it means simply a better skybox as xbmann explained above.
- If you use glass textures, try to use the ones with lines because they are easier to see. (Sometimes people don't realize and end up shooting at the glass when it is clear)
- You may aswell put Nodraw underneath the map because it can't be seen at all
- I don't think high ground like this right next to a forward spawn is a good idea. You don't need to give the spawners height but at least give them a chance to live.

- For an underworld themed map the lighting isn't "underworld" enough. https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_2_Sky_List <---- Here is a list of skyboxes and light_environment values to go with them. This should guide you in the right direction. Just scroll down to find the values that halloween themed maps use.
- These probably a better way of doing this

 

[Niro]

The map feels great to run and jump around on, the layout already looks very promising.

 

[Zeus]

Hey, I saw you link this on your stream and I thought I would take a look. I noticed that almost all of your map is rendering at once because of how open the skybox is. Even in the alpha stage this may be taxing for some players if their game is trying to render every player / entity in the map. This can be observed with mat_wireframe.

Your issue seems to be that your map isn't sealed closely or separated into different areas with skybox brushes, and instead enclosed in a very large hollow box. The problem with this is that it can throw off the optimization step of compiling because it needs to check visibility in large unused spaces outside and under the map. This is apparent when using mat_leafvis 3 to see how the map is being split up for visibility checks.

Although it's a lot of work, I suggest closely enclosing your map and separating the different areas with skybox brushes to make optimization easier. I also suggest taking a look at the interlopers optimization tutorial sections for visleafs and hints or maybe some of Crash's video tutorials. You don't have to go super in depth with them in alpha but a minimal amount of optimization work will make a big difference for playtesting.

Here is an example of how a finished map uses skybox brushes and hints to separate different areas for optimization (with other tool textures hidden):

combo not using a diaper sky and using area portals can get you 80% to good optimization

 

[Aarmastah]

Was playing this map on stream and found a bit of a nasty exploit:

 

[80riNG]

if it gets added to game and it has halloween/underworld theme will it be ever allowed by valve to be played fulltime (not just halloween events) in casual/competetive matchmaking? this my only concern with theme. geometry/layout on other hand is very cool. the open choke/valley between 2nd and mid is amazing gameplaywise. it give so many cool oportiunities for jumping classes to atack 2nd or mid depending on which side of choke you are. i like how you can push last point with some routes safely without being killed by sniper from spawn. overall it feels that this map was designed with every element of it with some purpose. healthpacks/ammopacks are placed very good in my opinion. my only concern is theme like i said before. valve might not agree to play this map in casual full year if it will have halloween theme. worstly valve may expect some pumking bombs and other stuff from halloween events maps in this map too like ghosts or bosses. thats all from me

 

[b4nny]

a5 Update:
-Basic optimization pass (skybox + areaportals)
-Added direction signs
-Adjusted lighting and sky
-Added additional cover in the lower main door to lobby
-Switched glass window texture

Thanks everyone for the feedback on the optimization and glitches. While this version only has basic optimization, hopefully it will improve performance. Feeling pretty happy about the current layout, so unless some significant feedback or playtest issues arise, may move onto texturing/detailing next.

 

[b4nny]

a6a Update:
-Increased ammo on mid and 2nd areas
-Added a window across from the jump pad balcony
-Removed room under 2nd point catwalk
-Added ramps from low ground up to the high ground areas on 2nd
-Added a low ground platform near the choke point on 2nd
-Reduced size of cover wall on ramp up to 2nd point
-Added a window in cover wall under 2nd point catwalk
-Adjusted health and ammo positions on 2nd
-Lowered "river" entrance to last slightly so that it is flat to the ground
-Added light to lower main entrance to last

These changes are mainly focused on improving the flow and feel of positioning and fights around the 2nd point.

 

[b4nny]

a7 Update:
-Slightly reduced the size of the tower and extended the size of the platform on last point
-Removed a nook and angled the tunnel exit doorway under battlements on 2nd
-Added health on battlements on 2nd
-Removed the dropdown into the connector between mid and 2nd
-Added a ramp connecting 2nd point battlements to the low ground
-Added a rock at the front of 2nd and adjusted rock under battlements to allow for easier jumping up to battlements
-Expanded the platform connecting 2nd point to low ground
-Expanded the low ground platform on 2nd and added a crate
-Expanded the covered section of the catwalk on 2nd
-Adjusted health and ammo position on 2nd point
-Added another ramp on the other side of the pillar in the connector between mid and 2nd
-Expanded the pillar in the connector between mid and 2nd
-Adjusted arrow signs in the connector between mid and 2nd
-Added small ramps up connecting the ground to the curbs on mid and 2nd

Experimenting with simplifying the connectors around 2nd point to see if it will improve the flow and feel of the area.

 

[b4nny]

a8 Update:
-Replaced rock brushes with rock props on 2nd point
-Added additional signage on 2nd point
-Adjusted rock orientation on middle to allow it to be more easily climbed
-Added a small ledge in lower lobby between 2nd and last to aid in climbing up to the high ground
-Cleaned up a few brushes, clipping, textures, etc.

Quick little adjustments based on recent playtest. Next version will probably have displacements on all the terrain and then we'll get into additional optimization, detailing and artpassing.

 

[b4nny]

b4nny updated Torment with a new update entry:

Update a9

-Adjusted shed size on last, added an awning
-Adjusted peripheral geometry on 2nd
-Added a window route between 2nd and mid connector
-Redesigned mid connector routes
-Adjusted 2nd forward spawn

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Lo-fi Longcat]

Very cool to see you still working on this! It had been a while since the last update so I thought it had been abandoned

 

[b4nny]

b4nny updated Torment with a new update entry:

Update a10a

-Adjusted mid geometry slightly to be a bit more open
-Replaced pillar in "house" connector with a crate
-Slightly lowered ceiling in lower "house" connector
-Added a wooden platform behind 2nd for more movement space
-Replaced sightline-blocking wall on last with a crate

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[b4nny]

b4nny updated Torment with a new update entry:

Update a11:

-Adjusted last point area to improve flow, especially at entrances
-Expanded last point lobby area, particularly the lower lobby
-Adjusted 2nd point area significantly to improve flow, and make defensive positions more dynamic and comfortable
-Adjusted house connector to improve flow
-Adjusted valley connector to improve flow
-Added cave passage under valley/cliff connector to improve offensive options
-Removed underpass areas on mid point area
-Adjusted mid point area significantly to...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[b4nny]

b4nny updated Torment with a new update entry:

Update a12

-Slightly adjusted mid point big rock and "shed" positioning to reduce cramped-ness

Read the rest of this update entry...