Convoy is a perfect example of a beautiful map that just doesn't play all that well. I agree that gameplay is #1, details second.
I was spectating though goldrush earlier, the details in that are amazing. I saw so many things I never noticed before.
When playing you don't notice the details beyond the playable area, even if it is a see though fence. The stuff on the other side just doesn't register when your playing. However i'm sure it would be noticeable if it wasn't there.
I have to say I disagree with the title of this thread, It is ok to get "hung up on the details" as long as you go about it the right way.
Sure, it's important to have a playable map, very important.
Gameplay and details shouldn't be ranked as one being better then the other. They both are important for different reasons.
Mapping can be viewed as an artwork, as well as providing a good play area for players.
Imo, goldrush is a work of art as well as an awesome map.
When playing you don't notice the details beyond the playable area, even if it is a see though fence. The stuff on the other side just doesn't register when your playing. However i'm sure it would be noticeable if it wasn't there.
I have to say I disagree with the title of this thread, It is ok to get "hung up on the details" as long as you go about it the right way.
Sure, it's important to have a playable map, very important.
Gameplay and details shouldn't be ranked as one being better then the other. They both are important for different reasons.
Mapping can be viewed as an artwork, as well as providing a good play area for players.
Imo, goldrush is a work of art as well as an awesome map.
the thing with Valves maps which a lot of people dont seem to get is that the gameplay area of the map is normally very bland, some props here and there, etc..
the sky box is where valve puts all the work into, the unaccessible areas is were they focus most detail into.
the sky box is where valve puts all the work into, the unaccessible areas is were they focus most detail into.
I'd agree with DJive on that last comment. The gameplay areas do tend to be fairly plain.
This is all about gameplay. Start throwing alot of props in there and players start getting caught on them. You get stuck you die or miss a kill, that sucks.
There is always no-clip but that can get annoying to because you can't hide in those tight little areas you think you can, as a spy that can be deadly.
I've also played quite a few maps for hours and never noticed details like rocket smoke, ect... The skybox with awesome cliffs and buttes... Usually those come into view when a rocket blasts you into space, or you are spectating waiting to spawn.
Those were the times were I thought "Damn, this is a really sweet looking map". During gameplay everything is about staying alive.
Suspension of disbelief. That's what games are about. You gotta feel like you are there, so much in fact that you don't notice these cool details.
SFX are always best when you don't know they are SFX.
This is all about gameplay. Start throwing alot of props in there and players start getting caught on them. You get stuck you die or miss a kill, that sucks.
There is always no-clip but that can get annoying to because you can't hide in those tight little areas you think you can, as a spy that can be deadly.
I've also played quite a few maps for hours and never noticed details like rocket smoke, ect... The skybox with awesome cliffs and buttes... Usually those come into view when a rocket blasts you into space, or you are spectating waiting to spawn.
Those were the times were I thought "Damn, this is a really sweet looking map". During gameplay everything is about staying alive.
Suspension of disbelief. That's what games are about. You gotta feel like you are there, so much in fact that you don't notice these cool details.
SFX are always best when you don't know they are SFX.
mtv22
L3: Member
- Feb 28, 2009
- 116
- 22
When I very first started map I always thought it was essential for things to line up perfectly, and I hated walls that weren't perfectly straight or ground levels that weren't all exactly the same. I've realized now that it doesn't really matter, people don't care and the difference between a 16 unit wall and a 20 unit wall isn't a big deal.
Don't get hung-up on detail, but don't use that as an excuse for sloppy, or lazy mapping.
Solution? Use 16 as your smallest grid size when first making a map. You don't need any more accuracy for detailing, you've just started! The *only* exception is when placing game-critical props (doors, cp models, payloads, etc), and then use Ctrl - B to make it snap to the current grid.
Also, always, *always* line up your walls, floors, levels, etc. in the local area. Not doing so from the second you start mapping can cause vicious /RAGE* later on when you're tweaking/styling your map and bump into dozens of void leaks, dozens of world/detail/brush lines making quick editing difficult, etc. Personal experience over 3 years with Hammer.
*see Left4Dead
Solution? Use 16 as your smallest grid size when first making a map. You don't need any more accuracy for detailing, you've just started! The *only* exception is when placing game-critical props (doors, cp models, payloads, etc), and then use Ctrl - B to make it snap to the current grid.
Also, always, *always* line up your walls, floors, levels, etc. in the local area. Not doing so from the second you start mapping can cause vicious /RAGE* later on when you're tweaking/styling your map and bump into dozens of void leaks, dozens of world/detail/brush lines making quick editing difficult, etc. Personal experience over 3 years with Hammer.
*see Left4Dead
Numerous
L4: Comfortable Member
- Oct 14, 2009
- 150
- 72
If only you were so "maticulous" in your spelling.
When I read that, the first thing that I thought was that you were referring to the way a tank acts when he spots the survivors.
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Cornish Gamehen
L1: Registered
- Dec 23, 2009
- 47
- 18
So the point is, don't go overboard on details, but don't ignore them, you've got to find the right balance.
- Dec 25, 2007
- 566
- 440
TIP: Don't get hung up on the details. :lol:If only you were so "maticulous" in your spelling.
- Apr 19, 2009
- 4,460
- 1,724
I lol'd at this.
Cornish Gamehen
L1: Registered
- Dec 23, 2009
- 47
- 18
Valve's finest crack team of mappers are coming round to your house with a bucket. And they will use EVERY drop of sweat against you.