[TIP] Don't get hung up on the details

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Alexforcefive, Nov 19, 2007.

  1. Alexforcefive

    Alexforcefive Guest

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    So I was playing Granary last night, and I noticed this:

    [​IMG]

    The point I'm trying to make is, it really doesn't matter if everything lines up perfectly. People just take a general idea from the decoration of your map. No-one notices stuff like this except for our elite group of mappers :)
     
  2. TheBladeRoden

    TheBladeRoden L7: Fancy Member

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    Alt message: Don't lose sweat over trying to be as good as the Valve mappers, you might be already.
     
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  3. drp

    aa drp

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    a good layout > map detail

    thats what i think anyway.
     
  4. Intraman

    Intraman L4: Comfortable Member

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    Agreed. Function over theme, and playablity over prettiness.
     
  5. Open Blade

    Open Blade L7: Fancy Member

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    I can recall playing on many maps where the detail work was fricken mind blowing awesome, only it was a total waste because you never saw any of it because everybody was always at one area of the map........can you say choke point anybody? Yes, details are great, but if the flow of your map sucks (in other words, try and make a few different routes in all areas) all the pretty work you did will be a total waste.
     
  6. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    That's not to say that details are a total waste however. I was playing Dustbowl, and noticed a rocket in the backround, belching smoke and such, ready for take-off. I also just recently noticed on granary that the first/final cap is actually a missile silo, and the point itself is directly underneath said rocket. Seeing those things just made me smile, and made the map more enjoyable.
     
  7. MacNetron

    MacNetron L5: Dapper Member

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    With details it is probably like: it makes a good map better, but not a bad map good.
    What I know for sure after playing some custom maps (to prepare myself for mapping): don't do too much details, because at a certain moment it is just cluttering the view.
    Difficult thing is to get the balance right :)
     
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  8. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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    yeaaahhh but... do make it pretty. Im that guy that bashes if it looks ugly :p
     
  9. Scoobingsthe2nd

    Scoobingsthe2nd L4: Comfortable Member

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    agreed. Function is more important than details... but if it looks like crap I'm not going to want to play it.
     
  10. Half-Life_Maniac

    Half-Life_Maniac L3: Member

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    To be honest, the VALVe maps (in all games) are no doubt well designed, but their mapping methods are sometimes not all what they could be.
    You'll often see brushes intersecting, splitting, texture misalignments and all sorts.

    I'm quite maticulous in my mapping, but then as a result, I take for-bloody-ever to get anything made...
     
  11. Logo

    Logo L3: Member

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    Yeah that pretty much sums it up. Details/visuals can make a good map better (or Worse!) but a bad map won't be a good map no matter how nice it looks.
     
  12. Fragimus_Max

    Fragimus_Max L3: Member

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    Adding details are fine, as long as those details are purposeful.

    For example: Adding boxes to an area of your map, simply as a decoration, is silly when you can, instead, add them in a way that contributes to the flow of the map.
     
  13. Kirko

    Kirko L2: Junior Member

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    Dustbowl for TF2 I HATE! I love to be engineer on red but for TF2 it is just horrible. U can't build a tele entrance, exit, level 3 sg, and a dispenser before the 55sec. is up. yes 55sec. u can move at the start until 5sec. have gone by which leaves u with under a min to build before the gate opens and a ubered hw takes out ur lvl 1 sg. in TFC i could get teleport up, grab grenades, build a lvl 3 sg, and a dispenser, and rotate my sg b4 the gate opened.
     
  14. Pegg

    Pegg Guest

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    yea, but sentry guns aer now totally imba compared to what they used to be. and it is very possible to get a TP entrance, dispencer and L3 SG up in 55 seconds
     
  15. Nizzem

    Nizzem L2: Junior Member

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    It is possible to get a lvl 3 sentry, teleporter and dispenser up in 55 seconds you just need to pick up ammo/metal and not depend on the dispenser.
     
  16. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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    true, just build dispenser first, than i get metal, build a tele, wait for new metal, build sentry and i get metal from the dispenser to build lvl2/lvl3
     
  17. jahrain

    jahrain L1: Registered

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    My 2 maps that I have made so far (cp_desertfortress and ctf_convoy[unreleased]) started at 2 completely different angles.

    With desertfortress, I started with a highly thought out basic map layout and design on paper, and then struggled trying to wrap a visual theme around the map design. The result was a map that doesn't have much visual quality or purpose to it's architecture, but plays extremely well and is very balanced. The few clan server admins that I tested out the map with strongly agree even though it could still use a few tweaks. The trade off was that is not that popular because it doesn't have the visuals to make it stick out or sell really well like other maps, for example highly played maps like castle which have visuals that stand out.

    With convoy, I started with a visual idea and theme (2 rocket carriers racing across the desert in a constantly moving map) and started trying to fit a map design around the visual theme. My prediction is that this map might sell allot better than desertfortress because of its visual theme that sticks out. The gameplay might not be as intense, but it might end up being played allot more.

    There is really a hand in hand trade off between going with strong visuals, or a well though out layout. We all have a finite amount of time, and a limited amount of talent so we tend to distribute our efforts biased in one of those directions. I spent months working on the map layout for desert fortress on paper, long long before I even touched hammer, so much less of my limited effort went into the actual building of the map.
     
  18. alehm

    alehm L1: Registered

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    Devil is in the details. A bad map can't be compesated with details but a good map will stand out above its contemperaries with well executed details.

    In the end, its all who builds a better house of cards, so to speak
     
  19. Mindless

    Mindless Guest

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    Umm yeah. Just to add insult to injury, try looking at the "Details" in hydro! And I'm not just talking about "details" such as an overlay here. There are two very obvious NoDraw brushes in plain view, that no one else seems to ever notice. One nodraw texture gives the blu team an advantage at one corner (lets you look through the wall). If you want, ill post the snapshots of em, but ill let you try to find em.
    (1) is in one of the spawns in the middle
    (2) one is from the dam area, entering a tunnel turning to the right, you can see through the wall.
    Not exactly details, but still, no one ever notices.
     
  20. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Also in hydro I just noticed a blatant displacement missalignment...