the rock

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by Big Nick Digger, Dec 11, 2007.

  1. Big Nick Digger

    Big Nick Digger Guest

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    Figured I would just start a thread for this map. We have been working on it for about 3 months now, and you can see the evolution of the map. So far everything is posted in this thread: ROCK2 THREAD

    I will try to keep this one updated now too (time permitting) :laugh:.
     
  2. Sacrifist

    Sacrifist L3: Member

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    Time for an update.
    Yup, we are nearing completion. Just need a few more custom images from our image guy. Im also continuing to make a few texture adjustments and light adjustments as well. Hopefully the images are done before weeks end.


    path leading to the underground shower entrance
    [​IMG]

    the beginning of a lightning strike in the yard
    [​IMG]

    the red yard as it is now
    [​IMG]

    the red base front
    [​IMG]

    the blue base front
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Koei

    Koei L4: Comfortable Member

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    Looks a bit empty, but maybe thats the style you wanted to go for.
     
  4. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    The new textures are really well done, and the cell blocks look great!
     
  5. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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    Its a bit too dark in my opinion, its not finished yet but it doesnt look... interesting, just like your warpath map that had the same bland look (except from later versions)

    Also i wonder why you would remake this map since budikkaman and shmitz are gonna pwn everyone when they are finished with their remake ^^
     
  6. Crimson

    Crimson L3: Member

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    Well, first off, Sacrifist has been working on his long before Buddikaman was as far as I can remember. I think his maps always tend to keep to the original (ctf_well, cp_warpath, etc) and others make the same maps but with the TF2 theme. I am all for both, as it gives more variety :)

    Anyways, looks great sacrifist. The brush work in the courtyard looks very nice, and you pulled off night pretty well, it does definitely need more lighting though.
     
  7. Sacrifist

    Sacrifist L3: Member

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    Just different styles man. I go for a much more realistic approach and also try to keep with the original's layout/look. As for why Im remaking this map, well we started it at the beginning of October so you gotta finish what you start right?
     
  8. Vilepickle

    Vilepickle L7: Fancy Member

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    Really, I find it hard to call something a "style" when you can't even SEE what is happening in the level. It's one thing to leave shadows in specific places, but it's another entirely to have the whole outside area almost pitch black. Why even show a screenshot of that section? You can't see anything. The underground path shot looks alright for a "darker" theme I suppose, considering you can actually see something. But when you can't even see the ground (or I assume water like it was) on the outside, that needs to be fixed I think. The number one complaint you will have is that players can't tell anything from anything and will just get frustrated.

    I'm a fan of porting maps too, but porting the lighting along with the map isn't a recipe for success. But of course, you're free to do it how you like.
     
  9. Scotland Tom

    Scotland Tom L6: Sharp Member

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    I really want to see a dark map work for TF2, but this is too extreme. I've said this about other maps before as well, TF2 was designed to be a game where players could see each other in almost all circumstances. I absolutely guarantee you that most players won't see ANYONE standing in most of the shadows you've got there. It's a heaven not just for snipers, but for any class that wants to fire without being seen.

    Remember, even the character models in TF2 were designed to be recognized at very long ranges. Not only do you have to keep in mind the map you're attempting to port, you must keep in mind the game you're porting it to. TF2 maps need visibility to take advantage of the style and mechanics the developers have specifically created the game around. So port the map, give it a dark atmosphere like the original, but please lighten things up and allow players to see what's going on instead of taking shots in the dark.
     
  10. Stueh!

    Stueh! L1: Registered

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    That rocks

    is it based on the film "The Rock" with sean connery?
     
  11. Paria

    Paria L5: Dapper Member

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    i think there will be a stampede of tfc players along soon to answer that :)
     
  12. Koei

    Koei L4: Comfortable Member

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    Which makes them pretty dull to play (the ctf_well you are referring to was really bad compared to other ctf_ maps made. And warpath is just stalemate heaven). And if it also looks dull ...well the fun kinda ends there.
     
  13. Sacrifist

    Sacrifist L3: Member

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    Its not as dark as you guys think it is and the middle with the water hasnt had any complaints about being to dark to see anyone in our beta tests.
     
  14. WarMecha

    WarMecha L2: Junior Member

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    My 2 cents:

    I dont think there is anything wrong with your map, you have what looks like solid layout and good basic structure to work with. But I would suggest that custom maps these days have to have a good amount of detail to hold any interest with the player, or they just wont play it, however good the gameplay of the map is. There's always a better map just on the next server ya know. Also presenting your map in a thread like this is a great way to get feedback from a fresh pair of eyes and let you know how things are really going, everyone here plays the game and these are the people you are trying to cater for! I think sometimes it a bit too easy to get 'stuck' in your creation and for want of a better word, become blind to what really needs to be done because your so focused on the work at hand. I find in this situation it's often good to give it a break for a while, a week or so is good for me, and then come back to it. Always helps the ideas come and gives you an appetite to improve it too. Afterall, there's no deadline for it, only the one you set yourself :tongue_smilie:

    I say this because I was very recently in exactly the same boat, working away like mad on my map, working out a load of stuff and finishing off a few bits. Got a few betas out, all was good. Posted up rc1 thinking, release was in the next couple of days max, and luckily for me someone had the common sense to say, actually mate, your map looks pretty bland tbh, you need to work on some detailing. And I actually looked at it and I was like, bloody hell, its bland as anything isnt it? Back to the drawing board. And I just couldnt see it, because I was so focused on the map, and just wanting to get it out. Now that I've added detailing into it, you can just see how much better it is now. It's added a few more weeks onto build time, but the end product is 100 times better. Worth the extra effort in my book.

    God sorry that ended up being a bit of an essay lol.
     
  15. Sacrifist

    Sacrifist L3: Member

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    Id like to agree with you here but its just not really the case at all and I hate orange maps. This is the current statistics for the top 10 maps in rotation right now for TF2 servers.
    [​IMG]

    The best detailed maps like stronghold, science and convoy all are being played on 6 servers or less. Quarry and studio arent even being played by 3 servers right now. So as much as I would like to agree with you about detail, its just not the case when it comes to what servers are playing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2008
  16. Crimson

    Crimson L3: Member

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    Warpath might be a stalemate heaven, but so are a lot of other maps. When you make a map that gets picked up and put in the CAL map rotation, and is one of the most played custom maps, then I might listen. I know your not being an ass, and I didn't mean to be, but I mean really its hard to say what will or won't be good.

    cp_studio_rc4 is one of the most amazing looking custom maps out there, but in all its beauty, rarely sees light because its too big. Warpath looks fine, it is nothing amazing, but in comparison to others I have seen, looks quite a bit better. We played it twice this week alone (CAL 8v8 and 6v6) and we won 2-0 in 8v8 and it was a complete rape fest on the 6v6. You need to take into account that a lot of maps, including this one, might not play well with 24+ players despite what the majority of servers run it are.

    ctf_well was one of the first custom maps out for TF2. I dont even think the SDK had been released when this map came out so you cannot really expect a lot from it. It was a great port, not sure what more we can ask from a port? Maybe get rid of those god awful elevator sounds! hehe.

    So yeah, this Rock2 might not be TF2 styled, and with the more TF2 styled one coming out in the near future, this one may or may not get as much play, but you gotta give him props for making it. All we can do is give opinions on what to change about it.

    *Edit*

    Damnit Sacrifist, you posted while I was afk and had not had a chance to hit post yet lol.
     
  17. Sacrifist

    Sacrifist L3: Member

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    I didnt release ctf_well_classic_b1. I released the updated b2 version (which Im pretty sure doesnt have the god awful elevator sounds lol)
     
  18. Paria

    Paria L5: Dapper Member

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    detail is all well and good, but if the map lacks a certain flow to the gameplay you can dress it up as much as you like, but after the initial wow factor, people will see the failures in the gameplay and lose interest.Of course visuals are probably the initial selling point to a person so if you can keep their interest visually whilst they actually learn the map layout then you're off to a good start,

    Of course i'm sure we are all trying to the best of our abilities, to produce the best work we can, if we werent we'd all be on fpsbanana voting 10's for the next orange/rainbow/tron/mario kart/ inspired masterpiece.
     
  19. WarMecha

    WarMecha L2: Junior Member

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    Indeed, I'm not suggesting its only about detail, I was trying to, obviously not very well :bored: suggest that good detailing on a map is an important addition after the gameplay and layout is worked out. I fully agree that a good layout and map idea is a must, but imo, lack of detailing on a map that has great layout can kill it just as fast a great detailing on a map with poor gameplay. I dont think I'm wrong in saying that alot of people will try to build maps that live up to the benchmark set by valve, and a lot of this for me is in the detailing, especially on the recycled TFC maps. I dunno, might be wrong. Just rambling really :)
     
  20. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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    You cannot take this as an argument sir, orange x is just under warpath with the most servers, shows again what idiots run around in this world.
    Some of my best friends think warpath is the best map ever. I told them wtf look at the texture using and so much more that is not detailed etc etc. They told me they didnt see the difference between 2fort and warpath in terms of detail using......

    Now i hope you are not gonna repeat the warpath quality. If you goal is to make this rock map like this with the original tfc building style, that's just sad.TF2 buildings are more fresh and are just awesome, I think you should aim for badlands quality or other stock maps. Also dark maps JUST DONT WORK for tf2.