Strata

[Zanpa]

TC remains "everyone defends except that Scout".
I think 3 points TC would be awesome, with a neutral point in the center.

Edit : I mean, something like that.

The ovals being CPs.

Edit2 : Of course, to improve flow, the point should be hard to defend, so that it is not too much of an advantage for the owner.
And it shouldn't add time, or it would be too long.

Wow, I wonder why I have this idea.

Edit3 : This concept in one wonderful image. Paint skillz.

As I am not a mapper at all, I wonder if this is possible, and how it would play.

Edit4 : I'm so sorry for this off-topic post.

 

[Chilly]

Zanpa's idea is REALLY cool. I'm not sure if it would work for Strata, since it involves completely revamping the connecting areas. However, it solves a lot of issues related to TC. I'd recommend two modifications though:
1. Final points work exactly like Hydro, with only one CP and each team only attacking/defending. If you do differently the map won't make sense.
2. Capping the intermediate CP gives the attackers instant respawn while leaving the defenders at their default (12 seconds?). That would avoid stalemates and really make holding that middle CP important.

The only drawback I see to this method is once a team gains the intermediate CP it's basically the same as Hydro at that point. I think the respawn time adjustment helps address the overall problem, though.

 

[Fearlezz]

13 cps. Thats too much. Tf2 only allows 9 cps in one map. Although it might be able to reuse some, but since we dont know what team will be owning what cp that would be impossible

 

[YM]

It could be altered to 7 CPs, which is under the limit. You have your four central CPs and they fight via a single central cap point rather than a cap point between the two. The central cap always reverts back to neutral on a new round. But it's not happening for strata, maybe someone else will run with it though.

 

[Chilly]

If you didn't have the ones on the end stages you'd reduce it down to 9. Or Youme's idea.

 

[YM]

Updated to _a2, here's the changelog -

• Added 30 seconds of setup time to final rounds.
• Revised one route between W and Y - wider and more open.
• Increased distances from attacker's spawn to the point in final rounds.
• Added a blanket reduction to spawntimers
• Adjusted ammounts and density of health/ammo packs.
• Miscelaneous minor tweaks.
• Opened extra route through 4/6 centre rounds.

 

[YM]

in b4 "lolololol I found graphical bug" yeah I know.. I have no idea what it is... for those clueless: There appears to be a closed areaportal type anomaly in a corridor near red's spawn (platform cap)

 

[Chilly]

The creator of ironbowl had that exact same issue, in case you're having issues tracking it down. Although I'm sure if he figured it out you can as well.

I have one main observation related to turtling. We saw one team tonight build a handful of sentries and lock down a point, which is obviously something you were trying to avoid. While they can't win that way, they won't lose either.

I think part of a solution is moving the health and ammo away from the CP's and place more of it in the routes between the CP's. That would reward teams for pushing forward while slightly penalizing the defenses. Building forward bases as engineer would be easier, building ubers would be easier, and defensive engineers/demomen would have a harder time staying alive and keeping ammo/metal. Just an idea to test.

EDIT: Hopefully it'll be fixed in a future version, but there's a stairway coming down from one of the upper ledges to the hill below a CP. An engineer built under these stairs and it could shoot up through the gap between the stairs and the ledge. It was impossible to destroy as a demoman since to shoot through the gap you have to be completely exposed to the sentry. If I see it in future versions I'll grab you a screenshot.

 

[Master of Spes]

What I don't like about Hydro are the last caps. Particularly their capture times. I haven't had a chance to play your map yet (will sone ) but I do hope that the last caps will have less advantage to the attackers and be more even. If blu is able to get to the last cap of red, then they are probably the better team, yet the last blu cap has no time for sentries, downhill for the attackers, a spawn camping vent (only one door), long respawn times, very quick capture times all advantaging the attackers. I can't remember anytime the last cap was defended. I know it's to avoid stalemates, but last caps need to be made more even and I hope you've made it more even and if you have, great. I will get around to playing very soon. Oh and this strictly for the last caps, i agree there are too many stalemates in the four point square and like the neutral point idea.

 

[YM]

When we played yesterday we managed to have level 3 sentries set up by both teams, it felt like a real epic battle for the point. A battle that could have been won by either team but was most likely to be won by the offence. I don't know what it felt like from defence's perspective but it felt nice as offence from where I was.

 

[Master of Spes]

I presume u are referring to the last point. If you could get level 3 sentries up (For hydro thats very unlikely) then you have made your final points very well. As well, you got epic battles for the last point (thats what dissapointed me with Hydro) then it sounds fantastic, looking forward to playing!

 

[Randdalf]

I haven't played it, only ran around a2, so many of these may be... wrong, but here's some thoughts:

• Teams switching at the end - a great inclusion that Hydro needs (pretty sure it doesn't happen atm).
• The displacement overhang bit, looks and feels a bit awkward at the moment, to me at least, but then again, time will tell, and it is currently irrelevant.
  
  
• The setup gates for the final CP on BLU's side are immensely close to the CP, I'd suggest moving the setup gates back a bit like in either of these images, they're by no means perfect:
  
  
  
  
  
• Some CPs really need hazard strips, as it's not initially obvious where the capture zone is.
  
  
• The shack in the image below is weirdly positioned, you could either rotate it to the benefit of the defending team, or move it (replace with rock?) to benefit the attackers. If moved for the attackers, the circled health could be placed within:
  
  

Remember to keep in mind that these are just from browsing around, not from any playing experience

 

[YM]

good stuff, but what's up with your water??

also, teams are swapped at the end of rounds. pay more attention to what colour you are! (or are you saying that I've got it and its a good thing?)

 

[Randdalf]

good stuff, but what's up with your water??

also, teams are swapped at the end of rounds. pay more attention to what colour you are! (or are you saying that I've got it and its a good thing?)

I was saying it's a good thing that you've got it

I play on the lowest possible specs for high FPS in competitive games, and it's a hassle to switch it on and off.

 

[MangyCarface]

Bridge is 100% the easiest round to defend. There are sooo many good sentry spots, it's very difficult to push inwards. No solution off the top of my head... Wait, first make the small square building near the area's entrances too tall to get a sentry on top of. Then perhaps add a railing to the bridge so that sentries placed on its lip cannot cover incoming attackers. Then make the entrance to that hut on its end smaller, or replace completely with glass and make only its sides accessible or something... I agree with the setup gate stuff Randdalf said for Blu's last.

 

[bomc]

Your game entities seem to be a little broken When you are on blue and red has all the cp (exept the last one) and blue wins the round by defending, in the next game (if its blue vs bridge) blue cant get out of the spawn. Red did (of course) win, and then when we played the final cap game (again) then there was no setup

 

[Mar]

Haven't tried it yet, but from what I've heard, you need more then 2 routes. In any map, for all intents and purposes, you need at least 3 routes to a cp/flag.

EDIT: You need more middle ground between every point, and make multiple middle grounds. Does that make sense? You need at least 3 routes to every point, and those routes need to be big and beefy, not a small tunnel. You need it so that you have 3 different areas were the offense can build ubers.

 

[no means nomad]

Some thoughts from a playtest on a2:
The issue I have with this map is that almost all the combat takes place in small corridors. One of the hardest parts about TC maps is that you need to create a great deal of interesting content that isn't always going to get played. At this point the map is just kind of boring to play on because almost all combat is focused in the chokepoints, and your chokepoints are mostly corridors that serve as basic connectors between the CP areas.

One of the things Hydro does very well is making those connections between the areas interesting(most of them, not all of them). Right now I think you really need to rework how these points are connected, because at this point the map itself just feels kind of dull. In addition to this, the map feels imbalanced towards close ranged classes like heavies and pyros because of how small and enclosed the passageways between points are.

 

[MrTwoVideoCards]

Whoa anew map, that was fast man, awesome stuff.

 

[YM]

Fixed the problem with a sucessful defence of the final points along with a few other things, I'm going to tweak the location of the setup gates for the final rounds and then put a new version out maybe tomorrow evening or wednesday.

Whoa anew map, that was fast man, awesome stuff.

Been working on this in the delays on furnace creek...