Strata

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by YM, Apr 17, 2009.

  1. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    I've tried to solve the issue of hydro's diagonal routes sending team's head on into each other, all stages have at least two route's between the two points in play.
    More than six months after the initial decision to make a TC map, and around six itterations I've finally managed to keep one I liked until 'completion' without scraping it and starting over.

    So with a week working on it almost solidy I've got it to a playable level with all 6 points build, even if I'm not happy with red's final point, its just not good - any and all suggestions welcome!! Using Boojum's gamemode library the process probably saved a day's work and several clumps of hair! Although thank's to his naming conventions I've now started calling my points W,X,Y,Z,R and B, rather than a more obvious A,B,C... but no matter, you'll never have to see those names as a player.

    I've been using the more generic cliff wall texture (reflectivity ooh yeah!) as a place holder because I have no idea what theme I want to take this map down. I love the alpine theme and really want to utilise it to make a map with but it's just so under developed I don't think I can stretch it to a full TC map, the various desert environments have the development for multiple points but with all the maps made with it and all the maps I've made with it.. kinda getting desert fatigue now. I'll think of something, but again, suggestions are always welcome.

    Revision History (DD/MM/YY)
    Alpha 3 released 22/04/09:-
    • Ensured all stages have health/ammo primarily in the tunnels to encourage pushes and discourage turtling.
    • Fixed vis error in a tunnel near red's platform stage.
    • Added hazard stripe to capture points to indicate their boundaries.
    • Fixed a problem where the team that failed to cap a final point would then be stuck in their spawn in the next round.
    • Slightly increased distance from attacking spawn to the capture point in final stages as well as moving the setup gates.
    • Added nobuild brushes in areas the opposing team can't get to.
    • Miscellaneous other tweaks
    Alpha 2 released 19/04/09:-
    • Added 30 seconds of setup time to final rounds.
    • Revised one route between W and Y - wider and more open.
    • Increased distances from attacker's spawn to the point in final rounds.
    • Added a blanket reduction to spawntimers
    • Adjusted amounts and density of health/ammo packs.
    • Miscellaneous minor tweaks.
    • Opened extra route through 4/6 centre rounds.
    Alpha 1 released 17/04/09
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  2. Dustoxx

    Dustoxx L6: Sharp Member

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    Great to have new TC map from you!:thumbup:
     
  3. frothy

    frothy L2: Junior Member

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    I welcome any new TC map. Hydro may be a server killer, but I honestly love it.

    I'll be keeping an eye on this, since your previous maps have been really fun.
     
  4. MungoKing

    MungoKing L3: Member

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    Here are the areas needing player clipping. I didn't do any testing with demo/rocket jumping so hopefully someone else does :\

    This brush is able to be walked on from all other sides but this one. It even looks like it should be able to be. So I'd either lower it or playerclip it.
    [​IMG]

    This large part of the rock here isn't able to be walked over, although it looks like it should.
    [​IMG]

    Once you fall down that crack you have to crouch to get out. Maybe just widen the platform or move the wall in? This is at the blue point with the granary tube thing.
    [​IMG]

    Hope those help ye! And fix all the weird texture glitches and brushes not touching! :p
     
  5. DJive

    aa DJive Cake or Death?

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    @ MungoKing.

    Most of the time depending on the people Alpha 1+ are strictly for layout only since most things "may" be changed based on real gameplay testing and because of this mapper's are not concerned about brush placement because it can change 10 times in an hour =p
     
  6. Sel

    Sel Banned

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    That was a lot of fun. Put more events of it up when you have another beta ready.

    [​IMG]

    :D
     
  7. HojoTheGreat

    HojoTheGreat L5: Dapper Member

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    Can't remember what stage it was on, but this corner proved to be a "catch" (teehee)
    Could stick to the displacement if you jumped at it the right way, simple fix I'm sure.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Overall the layout feels borderline great. Very fluid if not for engies ^ ^. I'm sure you'll come up wtih something for the final points.

    I'd still recommend trying to scale down the open arenas. It would reduce travel time and probably stalemates to a point.

    Also consider a third path for the middle 4 Stages.
     
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  8. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    so...heres my standard gameplay feedback

    Its incredibly difficult to play as a spy, the narrow corridors leading between the teams make it a matter of luck as to whether you can even get though or not. Then the large open areas around the point make uncloaking a very dangerous thing as everyone can see everywhere. Then in the odd hallway that allowed a spy hiding spot, it was so obvious that pyros would burn in there to be sure.

    It also seems to be quite unfriendly to offensive snipers, to get a good look into the opponents large area you need to fully expose yourself, and since the map really promotes defense, there will be someone near there that can see you, and kill you. Now that I think about it...this is less of a complaint about snipers...as it is with the structure of the maps. With large open areas around the point, and 2 narrow paths being the only entrance and exits, those entrances and exits become natural chokepoints, and that...I really don't like...

    was going to do a pyro rant...but the rest kinda sums up my opinion on that...
    as for my suggestion?...id say one of the paths should be widened, and maybe more cover/ size reduction in the areas around the point
     
  9. StoneFrog

    StoneFrog L6: Sharp Member

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    Great! I love TC maps.

    Boy, you just keep pumping them out, Youme. :D
     
  10. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Thanks for testing tonight guys I'll sort some stuff out tonight and maybe get it updated for gameday tomorrow but if not I'll run more midweek tests with new versions (I'll run midweek tests anyway! :p)

    Things to do:
    • fix up getting suck
    • reduce spawn timers slightly
    • increase attacking distance to final point
    • add setup timer to final point (20-30 seconds?)
    • more health etc
    • spectator cams show only active rounds
     
  11. Chilly

    Chilly L6: Sharp Member

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    I disagree with this, but not entirely. Certain areas are very hard as a spy, while overall it was pretty fun playing as one. I would definitely like to see some of the narrower connecting halls widened a bit, though. I did find it was hard making it through without bumping people. I found spy worked best defensively.

    Widening some of the halls is a good idea for other reasons, too. When I was playing demoman I found it very easy to completely lock them down by spamming. I also saw some pyros just completely demolish enemy heavies, medics, and soldiers in there. Increasing the width would give those other classes a bit more of a chance.

    Other than that I think it looked pretty good. I'd like to see each area have a few places away from the CP for engineers to place offensive teleporters. That's one thing I love about Hydro... the ability to drop a teleporter behind enemy lines and do a ton of damage. I do think there's a lack of good defensive sentry locations, but that's a good thing on a TC map, so kudos for that.

    The last CP, defending as blue, absolutely sucked. There were enemy soldiers walking onto the point as we got to it, and I started moving immediately when I spawned. I would highly recommend stretching that stage out and giving the defenders at least a few seconds to prepare before the attackers arrive.

    Obviously a lot of places you get stuck, but since it's the first alpha that's not a bad thing. :)
     
  12. Void

    aa Void Local Man Unable To Map, Sources Say

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    Odd, rare glitch with one of the doors. I provided a shot of the cap point for assistance in finding said door.

    Door prop is closed sometimes, but can be walked through:

    [​IMG]

    Now you see it? Now you don't. It's animated a while after.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    This...this is my main issue, as far as I could see...every class worked better defensively...
     
  14. FreeLance_FoX

    FreeLance_FoX L6: Sharp Member

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    OMG. Jizz.

    TC has always been my favorite map type and only one map has ever really made the gamemode worth playing (Meridian). It's my sincere hope that you can bring the mode back to life with this, I've been awaiting the release ever since your first topic and can't wait to try it!

    If I'm around next time you play it hit me up, I absolutely love TC! ^_^

    <3FoXy
     
  15. Sel

    Sel Banned

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    I never really had a whole lot of trouble pushing up, atleast not until the sentries dominated the point :\
     
  16. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    I found I could get to the point easy enough, but the whole team just hung around each point, so I had no backup and suddenly faced an entire team... that could be because its a brand new map and you're unaware of the layout making you naturally tentative or it could be people really felt like they'd be more useful defending. Time will tell!
     
  17. Mar

    Mar Banned

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    Hm, this map has aroused by interest. A TC map you say. You know what, I think once we maptesting cp_matterhorn, this is going to be the next map that |AoC| is going to test out. If you want to attend, Youme, follow the link on my sig.

    EDIT: Also, pm me if you want to take up my offer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2009
  18. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    Ill admit i didn't get on until 30mins in, but the entire time i as there was when the sentries were dominating

    this is precisely what i saw happening...im inclined to think that people thought they would be more useful defending, rather then ignorant of the map, mainly based on the fact that most people were there for awhile...
     
  19. Chilly

    Chilly L6: Sharp Member

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    Part of the reason for that happening is lack of forward locations to build ubers. On Hydro there are small open areas you can defend and set up forward bases before pushing in. If you just have pathways in between with no open areas then teams are forced to group and build ubers at their own CP before trying to push through, hopefully saving their uber for the enemy CP.

    I can't think of all the paths between your areas offhand since I didn't play long enough, but you might want to take a close look at that. It also helps prevent stalemates since a team with a good engineer can build forward which makes it very hard for the other team to hold indefinitely. These areas should generally be halfway between both CP's.

    Anyone have a top-down map available? :)
     
  20. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

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    Main reason why TC works is that people defend, instead of push. I don't know if its possible, but try to encourage less defending around the capture point, and more pushing around connecting tunnels. That way when the other team "pushes" your team back to your point, its more of a mad scramble to attack/defend the point, and less of a capture the flag situation.