CP Snowbound b2

Melvin D Engineere · Oct 25, 2012

I've uploaded a video featuring your map:

TF2: cp_snowbound_a1a

NoodleCollie · Oct 26, 2012

Awesome stuff.

NoodleCollie · Nov 16, 2012

Just to let you guys know that I'm very near being able to release A2 - just need to do a rough clipping pass before it'll be playable. I'll be travelling places again this weekend, but I'll save the playtest submission for next Sunday.

Screenshots have been updated already (map link hasn't, obviously) and the upcoming changelog for those interested is:

Code:

A2:
	- Modified Stage 1 Point 1:
	-- Complete area redesign.
	-- Buildings are reduced and simplified so that the control point is more focal.
	
	- Modified Stage 1 Point 2:
	-- Repositioned the control point building to be more accessible and easily defensible for Red.
	-- Modified routes leading from point 1 to point 2.
	-- Modified surrounding arena to be more useful to Red.
	
	- Modified Stage 2 Point 1:
	-- Repositioned control point and surrounding buildings to draw more focus to the point.
	-- Redesigned parts of the surrounding control point structures.
	-- Removed protection from falling off cliff.
	
	- Modified Stage 2 Point 2:
	-- Added health and ammo to small room opposite point.
	-- Added extra room below right-hand route to point.
	-- Removed the top cargo crate separating the Red spawn exit from the point to allow easier defense via projectiles.
	-- Removed the upstairs corridor route that led Blue to the room overlooking the point; replaced with external staircase leading to room that is more accessible for Red.
	-- Slightly modified dimensions and structure of arena preceding point area.
	-- Created an opening to the building near the parked dumper truck that provides line of sight to the control point; made this accessible by prop jumping.
	-- Closed off the rear doorway to this same building.

	- Modified Stage 3 Point 1:
	-- Cut-through route from Red spawn now includes a window and a raised exit overlooking the point.
	-- Area to the right of the point which was formerly out of bounds is now accessible.
	-- Added some cover for point defenders.
	-- Added defensible space at end of vent route, upgraded medium ammo pack to full.
	-- Added small room adjacent to point containing health.
	
	- Modified Stage 3 Point 2:
	-- Upgraded some health and ammo packs.
	-- Added a drop-down route to access the low ground route on the left when approaching the point.
	-- Changed structure of Red respawn rooms to allow easier access to the control point.
	-- Converted one of the former respawn rooms to be a defensive hold overlooking the control point.
	
	- Fixed some one-way doors allowing access in both directions.
	- Improved trigger bounds on some doors.
	- Added a second exit from Blue spawn on Stage 3.
	- Improved capture zone markings and sizes.
	- Improved clipping.
	- Increased fog distance.
	- Remedied a severe FPS drop when looking from the beginning of Stage 3 towards the final point.
	- Increased capture times on all points.
	- Added a crate pathway to allow climbing onto flat roof on the way from 2-1 towards 2-2.
	- Changed structures and pathways to point 2-2.
	- Added observer cameras to watch over all control points, plus a welcome camera overlooking the first stage.

Kill_the_Bug · Nov 16, 2012

Herbie!!!

Ha - always nice to see one of you maps!

WolfKit · Nov 16, 2012

Dat changelog.
Also, I'm not in love with that circle in a square in the last screenie of the OP. Maybe add something inside of the corners of the square to break up the texture a bit?

Tarry H Sruman · Nov 16, 2012

You really should change up stage three a lot. It's almost identical to stage three of Dustbowl, narrow corridors and all.

NoodleCollie · Nov 18, 2012

Updated the first post with the new download link and changelog (ie. A2 is now live).

NoodleCollie · Dec 8, 2012

Updated for A3. Most of the work has gone into the last point and its surroundings, though there are other bits here and there. Hopefully this should be the last alpha.

NoodleCollie · Jan 19, 2013

Updated for tomorrow night's gameday with B1:

19/01/13 - B1:
- Initial texturing pass.

- Initial lighting pass:
-- Trialling night time lighting to see how it compares.
-- Added a custom skybox texture.

- Stage 1:
-- Changed upper route exit into second point area to break up the sightline a little.
-- Added a barrier to the balcony this route leads onto to block line of sight from the Red holding point.
-- Made the right-hand flanking route one-way.
-- Added a room to the right-hand flanking route to aid Blue.

- Stage 2:
-- Modified buildings around point 1 to make it more defensible.
-- Closed off the lookout tower from direct ground access.
-- Added a small flanking route behind the lookout tower.
-- Added an upper route leading inside the lookout tower.
-- Added a defensible building for Red at the first corner of the route between points 1 and 2.
-- Removed the far cargo crate at point 2, closed off the end area and created a new doorway overlooking the point.
-- Removed the small ammo pack from the smallest alcove near the second point, widened the entrance to the adjacent alcove.
-- Removed the boxes that allowed access to the staircase around the building near the second point.

- Stage 3:
-- Re-opened the side doors on the cut-through route to point 1.
-- Removed the upper balcony overlooking point 1.
-- Changed the structure around point 1 to provide cover from incoming Blue players.
-- Modified the routes into the final point.
-- Added a door to the bottom right route to the final point.
-- Closed off vent that leads to point 1 to trial whether this makes it easier to defend.

Main areas I'm looking to evaluate right now are:
1. Red vs Blue balance around each of the 6 points (whether any are too easy to attack or defend)
2. Is daylight or night time better?

Yacan1 · Jan 19, 2013

I'm just saying but personally I enjoyed daytime better, it was a bit easier to see where I was going right away since the snow and sky accentuates the buildings more. And you have colored lights, just keep them regular lights if you need to. Check this out for more about lighting and such.

NoodleCollie · Jan 19, 2013

I have to say I suspected that might be the case, but I'd hashed together a custom skybox and wanted to be sure before I ditched all my hard work.

(An hour)

Wilson · Jan 19, 2013

Personally, i think you should stick to the daytime instead of nighttime. Your daytime version had this really cold atmosphere to it, where this one doesn't.

Bloodhound · Jan 20, 2013

I dislike this map for some simple reasons.

It's way to confusing, starting with the spawn rooms.
In most cases you spawn with the face against the wall, and then you have to find the exit, which has like 3 curves itself.

There are also to many places for the defenders where they got much height advantage and the attackers can't barley get to that place, if they are non-jumping classes.

NoodleCollie · Jan 20, 2013

Spawns should be easy enough to fix, though it would be helpful if you gave some examples of where the height advantages are detrimental so I can look into improving them.

Bloodhound · Jan 20, 2013

phi · Jan 20, 2013

So. Snowbound was played today and I personally liked it a lot. It played well, had difficult but not impossible to overcome defenses, and pretty good balance. I personally liked the daytime version better but that's just me.
Furthermore, now that you've progressed into beta I feel like I should take a run around and critique the entire map, for you. One thing before I start: please think about making less dead-end rooms. One or two in the right place can work, but there are far too many here for that.

I think you should rework these textures so they align better:

Prop lighting error.

This cliff, it just looks odd. It's like a giant deformed snowball, make it look like the one on the other side of that ramp.

Here's a useless room. Instead of the window at the other end you should make a doorway, or some other way of getting out.

This whole route should probably have a one-way door so that RED can't flank all the way around BLU.

Overall, your 1-2 point is pretty good but could use a little work.
There is a somewhat hidden sentry spot inside the CP building, that tends to be a bit hard to take out if RED has control over the far catwalk and ledge.
I didn't see the flank from the bottom route (the one with the displacement cliffs to the right) being used very much, particularly because it has a height disadvantage. Maybe give it a bit more influence or a way to use it to get behind the point?

This whole area here leading up to the ledge in the second picture wasted countless persons' time. I noticed too many people enter one of the three (!) entrances to the dead-end path and look around for an exit, only to turn around back out. Maybe make it so there isn't so many entrances into the unused route?

This room is unusable to anything but snipers, mainly because the windows are solid. You should make them pass-through (like Badlands) so that it becomes a more useful route and people don't face a dead end every time they enter it.

This whole route is utterly useless. It's long, tiring, and it can be bypassed from an equally as accessible door in the main choke. Do something with it, like shorten it, because right now I never see anyone use it except for flankers from RED.

Shameless praise: I love this. I once did something like this in one of my unreleased maps, I love it that someone is finally putting it in their map.

Useless room.

Okay, so 2-2 is the point which I personally think needs the most work.
First of all, there's only a few routes onto the point, which is easily defensible from some camping spots in the upper corner and that one room to the upper left.

In addition, I think this door should open or be done with; considering it does nothing but block a possibly OP sentry spot from being attacked easily.

I like this point, deceptively defensible but it really isn't. Requires actual thought to be put in to defend.

Although this window should probably be closed off or be a full door, preferably the latter since there's no way to escape from the dead-end of the point itself if someone chases you onto it.

Is this accessible anymore? It was a really nice route and it kinda makes the spot on the crates in front of the BLU spawn useless if it isn't.

You should shorten the end of this room (on the side with the health pack) just because it seems a bit too easy to hide in it.

Make these windows able to be jumped through, that would make escaping the room and dealing with snipers easier.

Somehow, I don't know how, but make this door seem like an actual door. I saw people who thought it was just for show (maybe because it's so tall and normally doors that tall don't open in other maps). Remember to keep overlays off of it, though.

Really, really, really, really useless room. Close it off and make it a detail room.

This door is so useful but so underused, particularly because people don't know it's there. Somehow make the route more naturally open up to it so more people know it's there.

Overall, 3-2 is a lot better than last iteration, but could use some work. Maybe a little bit of cover around the point?

All in all, it was a nice map and quite fun at that. Good luck with your next version Herbie and it certainly will be a map I look forward to playing in upcoming gamedays.

GPuzzle · Jan 20, 2013

If you can get the koth_arctic skybox, please put in. I think it looks much better than the Doublecross skybox. At least in my opinion.

NoodleCollie · Jan 21, 2013

Wow, thanks for the detailed reviews. I'll look into improvements over the coming days.

Kill_the_Bug · Jan 21, 2013

Hey Herbs what's the current entity count? - I'd like a comparsion between the daytime and nighttime versions. Just want help to make sure you keep it absolutely stable fo 32 players and not go over the 1600 limit with all bombs, rockets and bullets going off.

NoodleCollie · Jan 21, 2013

I shouldn't think it's too much since I'm only just into alpha, but I'll keep an eye on light sprites and such. Do func_lods count towards this? I have been using them in opposition to func_details in some places to cut down on t-juncts pre-emptively.

CP Snowbound b2

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