Our Letter To Valve

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by Armadillo of Doom, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    Edit 3: Semi-final wording. Still need a link for the ctf_badlands wip.

    Edit 2: Added a subject line

    Edit 1: Made the suggested changed, mixed up the wording a little bit, narrowed the stuff in parens to a single option.

    I hope DrHaphazard doesn't mind me starting this. We've had an awsome list of changes just sitting around; http://tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=784 I think it's time we passed this along to Valve. I'm also considering just copying the entire list of suggestions, and organizing it by type. So here's the rough draft- (stuff in parentheses means not sure)

    Subject: A Request From The Mappers

    Dear Valve (or whoever),

    My name is Daniel, and I am writing you on behalf of the largest custom Team Fortress 2 community; the TF2Mappers at www.tf2maps.net We have all enjoyed creating new material for this amazing game. One of our members has been hard at work for several months doing an awsome remake of ctf_badlands- (need link). We would like to ask that you consider a few updates to the editor, allowing us more freedom to create unique content. As the largest custom TF2 community, we have agreed on a few things that we would like to see, and feel would be extremely helpful to the all the mappers.

    The single biggest item we would like to have is the ability to use multiple gametypes in a single map. At the moment, doing so is very difficult. For example; one player can carry infinite flags, there is no way to manipulate the hud, scoring is messed up when using cp's and flags at the same time. A fix to the specific filters such as by damage type, class, and flag possession, would go a long way. There are a number of other items that we would consider invaluable tools:

    CTF-
    1. Ability to modify the speed penalty of a flag carrier.
    2. Option to set the flag return timer.

    Scoring-
    1. Greater variety of scoring systems. For example, points earned based on the amount of time a flag/cap is owned.
    2. The game_score entity appears to be broken, and is unable to alter individual scores, only that of the team.

    Models-
    1. Scalable models.
    2. The ability to directly import models to Hammer from programs like Blender, XSI, and Maya.

    Textures-
    1. A greater variety, specifically for indoor and urban environments.

    Hammer Specific-
    1. Fix the 'can't build default cube maps' error.
    2. Ability to see smoothing groups in Hammer.

    Game Rules-
    1. Control of max spawn time, not just minimum. At the moment, this can only be done server side.
    2. Limit and/or disable classes. This is also a server side option we would like to have for Hammer.

    We know you guys are working very hard, and are grateful for everything you have given us. I know I speak for everyone in this community when I say we are all eagerly anticipating the new achievement packs, and Episode 3. Right now we just want a bit more flexibility when mapping for Team Fortress 2. Thank you for your time, and keep up the good work!

    Sincerely, Daniel JE.

    P.S. Does anyone at the Valve office play custom maps? What are some of your favorites?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2008
  2. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    CTF: Add a point about being able to change the flag return timer.

    Textures: The first point is a bit of an odd request. Maybe specifically ask for a tutorial. Otherwise it seems like we're asking them to wave a magic wand and make everyone intuitively know how to create impressionistic effects in photoshop.

    Environment: This seems like a weak section. If we need to take anything out for fear of asking too much, this section is a good candidate, because it's not really dealing with any fundamental mapping issues.

    Hammer Specific: Move points 2 and 4 into their own section titled "Game Rules".
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2008
  3. Haas

    Haas Guest

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    1. Ability to add a speed penalty to the flag carrier.
    if you set it to attack defend it already has a speed penalty.
    Asking to modify the speed penalty would be better.
     
  4. l3eeron

    l3eeron L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    My couple gripes have already been mentioned...

    - When using the attack/defend ctf game mode, give me an option to modify the speed penalty

    - When using the attack/defend ctf game mode, give me an option to give the flag capper points on the score board and/or a time based value

    - An entity to allow hammer to control class limits

    ... again already mentioned, Im just reinforcing

    More textures and models would be cool not necessary in my amateur opinion.


    Oh, I almost forgot, we NEED the tools to make the yellow/green/civilian teams. for murderball and hunted etc


    ...maybe a few more bonus levels for peggle extreme would be nice too lol! :D (just kidding!)
     
  5. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    Alright, first edit is done. yay :)
     
  6. dirtyminuth

    dirtyminuth L5: Dapper Member

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    I'd like a chance to look this over before you send it out (will get a chance within 24 hours). You list some ambitious requests and some language is less professional than desired (e.g. "4fort for the win!").
     
  7. Sean of the Dead

    Sean of the Dead L3: Member

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    i still miss my ladders :'(
     
  8. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    I know Sean, me too. But I left it out, cuz I have to agree with Valve about them just not fitting the TF2 style. And Minuth, I put that last bit in parens for just that reason, cuz I'm not sure if it should be included.
     
  9. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    It's vastly reduced from everything in the other thread, but another that needs to be on here is an input to return flags, perhaps actually two, ReturnIfDown (not carried) and ForceReturn.
     
  10. timberghost_paintball

    timberghost_paintball L2: Junior Member

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    I'm not entirely sure that more maps and models is necessary. I'm fairly confident that they will come when new maps are released, and since they are content that the community is capable of producing I figure Valve's efforts are best spent doing what we can't.

    Also I'm not sure if this falls under the hammer cubemap error but, fixing the rest of the skybox textures other than hydro so that they work with water without rendering errors would be really good. As far as I can tell and my research has told me, the skybox textures are not all the same size and so a proper cubemaps cannot be built.
     
  11. Jive Turkey

    Jive Turkey L3: Member

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    Instead of just a way to turn off classes, I think what we want is to have a filter entity that is based on player class. You could then implement the removal of certain classes on a map that way, which is how I believe TFC operated. But moreover, you could create more complex trigger behaviors for custom map objectives. That's something I and other posters have really wanted.

    Also, the request for more textures is unrealistic, and something the community should be doing anyway. It isn't something that is out of our hands. Where are the artists around here?

    ps. Do we need to be boasting the largest TF2 mapping community? I don't necessarily doubt the claim, but it comes off as arrogant. There are other sites out there.
     
  12. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    I did try to compact our list as much as possible. Timerghost, I'm pretty sure that 'more maps and models' isn't included, but I've been wrong before :p I don't think the request for more textures is unrealistic at all. What we have now is paltry compared to DM. Stating that we are the largest group seemed like an afterthought to the introduction, a part of who we are. I don't see that as arrogant, but I'll keep it mind. I believe having those specific filters would go hand in hand with class limits, but it's possible we might get a seperate entity with all those functions, rather than just more outputs.
     
  13. Buddikaman

    Buddikaman L3: Member

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    It would be very un-resourcefull for valve to release new textures or models for the sake of doing so. If anything they will create those things when designing there new maps, and not a moment before. I honestly would delete that part because the rest of the letter will lose credibility as it will come off as am absurd request.

    Also, the making it easier and more effecient to import custom models is a absurd request as well. While i agree it is not user friendly AT ALL and frankly is a pain in the ass, source has been out for many years now, and through all the companys who have payed to liscened the engine and continue to do so, it remains the same. Why would that change now?

    Textures- A general tutorial would be great, altough I doubt theyll do it . Personnaly I have been struggling as well to recreate valve textures, and while im still struggling, I have come a ways to mimicking there style. Again, valve releases the tools, its up to the individual to create the content, there not going to hold your hand and train you in game art, as nice as that would be.

    I say keep the requests short and sweet, or else they will probably disregard the letter completely.

    -Buddikaman-
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2008
  14. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    The lightmap grid has also dissapeared! I want it back!
     
  15. Buddikaman

    Buddikaman L3: Member

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    I just thought of something, get them to make a filter that shows only TF2 textures!!!!

    -Buddikaman-
     
  16. TheBladeRoden

    TheBladeRoden L7: Fancy Member

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    er, they did that one
     
  17. Buddikaman

    Buddikaman L3: Member

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    Really? How do you do it?

    -Buddikaman-
     
  18. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    texture window, textbox that says keywords (under the filter textbox) type in two magical letters, 't' followed by an 'f'

    :D

    but the lightmap grid is just colours now :( its hard to tell whats what once you've changed things