CP original [wip] (working title) a24

[LeSwordfish]

Something that struck me as perhaps a misstep was this ledge.

Normally, from this area, you can only see some of the entrances to the final point. But stand on the ledge...

And you can see all the entrances at once.

Seems a bit odd. There were often two or three soldiers up there, and it isnt easy to weed them off.

 

[Sgt Frag]

Good point. I had left that purposely as a place maybe spies could hide and wait for the perfect sap-opp. But I haven't seen spies there, just demos and solys. It's probably not even a very good spot for spies to hide.

 

[Sgt Frag]

No new file but quite a bit of work.
Optimized C mostly, rest of map a bit. 1580 leafs down to 1380.
blocked path under water fall from B>C. Didn't seem like it got much use anyway/helps shrink map space.
moved A>C staircase in towards middle a hair, shortened path around the back a little.
added more area portals.
more displacement work/optimizing.
added water to docks area.
some modeling,
And Yyler mentioned I needed one of these:

 

[LeSwordfish]

It's touching itself. And grinning.

 

[Sgt Frag]

Should he be frowning?

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Figured out why I had a missing rock texture last test and not the one before.

I have a custom blend tex that uses 2 base textures. On a brush it just uses the first tex so it shows fine. As a displacement it calls the alpha (even though I hadn't painted) so it needs the new vmf for the blend.

Also figured out why the water in my bay was dry. Somewhere in the layers of water,nobuild, push and hurt brushes my water got func_pushed.

 

[Jimmy Nicholls]

This looks really awesome! Do you know when it'll next be tested?

Only thing I'm not sure about from looking at it is the trees don't seem to mesh in to the environment so well at this point, but that's only from seeing screens.

 

[Sgt Frag]

The screens are a little outdated, but still alpha so tons of detailing to do yet. Only starting on it in areas that I feel are getting close to final.

B is actually updated a lot from that screen, I need to get new pics up. (has model bridges, water is lake under point (pagoda), pagoda has model roof, cave behind b to point...)

I'm going to try and get it up on The Cafe tommorrow night (a15 vers) and I've been getting it on gamedays or impromptus about once a week. So it's hard to say exactly when it'll be tested, but if you watch the map tests thread, or are signed up with tf2maps steam group you should get a heads up.

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changes made for a16, not uploaded yet.

added bucket in blu spawn for Super.
used railing models in place of place holder railings so Rexy can sniper pwn everyone.
Moved one way door so blu can get in C easier for Godslayer.
Fixed water issue at docks.

 

[Sgt Frag]

a17

reworked the Red spawn to C path, now it spits you out directly at C, adjacent to a door from the room with the staircase. So it'll take red a little longer to get up top, but quicker to the point and the paths red and blu take to point are seperate.

turned on clip so those issues are gone.

adjusted red spawn time, lowered it as it was leading to 25 sec (same as GP- I wanted less) Max now should be 18, min around 11. Might end up decreasing a bit more.

The tests so far have been all over the board, but still the stats are looking fairly close to 50/50.

Closed off middle path from Blu spawn. I think it was spreading players too much.

 

[Sgt Frag]

The path changes in a17 seemed to help game play a lot today. Maybe people are just getting used to the layout. Hard to say with one test but it seemed like teams were together on the points a lot more this time around.

I think the C spawn exit is better , but I think I need to make the flow out the 'stair door' better. Also thinking I might add a door from red spawn to B at the wall you go around. So before B is capped red has a smoother flow out that way, once B is capped they just go around the corner through the C point.
Only about 3 seconds of walking, but better flow and reason for door details, lol.

also player clip was back so no exploits, screwing around due to them.

However, Blu won all 4 rounds and I don't think that has happened yet. A couple rounds were tight, but 2 seemed fast. I think Blu's spawn time is going to be increased slightly.

a19 stuff...
Made the C wall gate doors a bit larger, looks better and the doorway isn't quite as cramped.

Messing with model smoothing groups, they were looking a bit 'buttery'. Too soft. (Mainly bridge and lamps at B).

added fallen cherry blossom decals.

Changed lighting to Goldrush with some tweaks. Sun is higher in sky and aligned to docks. Now most of the game area is in sunlight, with only a few spots of shadow. And it's softer, not so bright and harsh. Tonemaps are being tweaked, same thing, not so harsh.

fixed another water/push brush issue in the back of A

Currently changing the Blu to B pathway. Going to be one door into Blu buildings, two doors out (one current location, one on other side sniper window). Pushing Blu buidlings back towards spawn so more fighting area in front of B. Going to try and minimize space inside that building so fight is more in open. B seems to easy to take.

due to feedback:
straightened up blu spawn points.

trying a new door at A. YM said the flank route was boring so The A balcony door leads in from the back now. There is a door from stairs to back for balcony access. Might make flanking easier on A, but also lets engie dig into corner more.

raised the railing at C death pit so people don't walk off as easy.

comment that C area doesn't have enough 'depth'. I take it to mean it's kind of plain. I agree, it's a fairly large square. But not sure I want to do much to it. I want it to be a good fight area, and the outside front part is meant as more of a buffer zone. (C on Gpit- the buffer zone is the height/ramp thing). Suggestions welcome, I currently have no ideas on it.

increased damage on water hurt filter.

 

[LeSwordfish]

For me the issue with C is:

A) the buffer zone is, rather than the main combat area, an area red gives up quickly in favour of the highly defensible final room

B) Said highly defensible final room doesnt have very much going on in it.

The "Buffer zone" is a bit big and sprawling, and hard to defend, since, although there are the same number of routes into it, theyre bigger and more spread out, and no single vantage point (The equivalent of the tower) can defend multiples of them.

Incentivising red's defence of the buffer zone is what i'd do. God only knows HOW.

 

[Sgt Frag]

hmmm. Some stuff to chew on. I think I need to request a demo for today and see what exactly transpired.

Not too sure about A really. At least today red sure didn't give up the space in front too easy.And it never felt to me like they backed into C and set up defense. Once Blu pushed in it seemed they had it.
I'm shortening Blu's spawn a bit, maybe it was just too easy for blu to push into buffer zone which made the final C push too easy.

In fact I think that's how I want it really, if blu can capture the buffer zone outside C it should be easy to build uber and break into C.

it's a hard call, I purposely tried to break the GPit mold of having that point in the open. Hoping Red WOULD set up good defense inside (hence the shortcut door for Blu).

Changing C itself is tough too. All together inside and out the fighting area is about the same size as Gpit C. If I do much inside like add more balconies/sentry positions it gets too tough to break. Or it gets cramped and just makes fighting in there tough.

I guess I could possibly shrink the rocket some, and that might give room for a platform, not sure it's really needed though. I kind of want the inside of C to act somewhat like the tower on C. Once a good push is made it's pretty well taken, but it takes good push to get there.

Total redesign just sounds too painful, and not something I feel is required.

As far as B goes, it does only have the one good sentry position up top. And I did give Blu easier access to that stairway again which possibly makes it underpowered now. I suppose I could extend the platform across the middle, but that might give sentries too much power as they could cover all doors pretty well from there.
I'm not convinced it's highly defenseable. Some tests Blu has rolled right in, others Red held off good. I don't think I've seen consistant enough teams or games to make that call.

Not too concerned if it's a little boring, as I consider the inside and out C and hope fighting will occur in the entire area.

If you can't tell I have no idea if/what to do with C, lol.

 

[Sgt Frag]

^hmm, wasn't going to mess with C. All that typing to justify it.
Then completely redid it. And it seems better. We'll see.


a22b

Changed paths from Blu to B. Split exit, made one high ground.

Shortened tunnel from B to C a bit. Moved B towards C a bit. (1-2 seconds run time)

Lengthend Blu spawn a hair.

Completely redid C. Tried to make it more open so cap point and area out front is more cohesive as one fighting area. Also made Red to B run shorter (4 seconds, now even with A)
Needs work.
Will try and improve spawn so Blu can't get back there.
Needs better defense? Maybe remove stairs to 2nd outside for Blu.

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Blu capped this round with a minute or two to spare. Not steam roll but not struggle, first two rounds.

Blu failed to cap any points 3rd round.

 

[Sgt Frag]

Took a week off from the map. Forgot what changes I made to a23, lol.

I know I fixed the player clip at B, and improved the spawn room, split door exits apart some.
Removed top water brushes so water doesn't tweak, need to make good stream model.
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for a24

evened up respawn waves (red had slight advantage but recent tests showed blu was having hard time getting all caps)

increased cap area for C.

moved spawn visualizers for blu further towards A/B. Should give blu a little more room to get out of spawn.

changed path a little for blu to A. Opened top of stairs so they can hold high ground better, opened a new door facing switchies, should be more forgiving getting out of blu buildings to A.

widened stairway on side of C for Blu attackers.

cleaned up B displacements, should be easier to get out of water.

------EDIT------
whoops, uploaded the bsp, but had bz2 in the DL link. Now fixed.