Oh god, Oh god, what have you done?!?!?

[Terr]

That's why this update is somehow disapointing cause it affects the community, not valve. Instead of spending their time making useful new maps that valve has a tiny chance to accept (still biggerthen recompiled valve maps), they spend it changing stuff in valve maps! That's why it was a bad idea to release them...

On what basis are you assuming Valve will never ever change the stock maps? They've done it before.


If you ask me, the odds of getting something of mine accepted Valve are much higher if I just fix asymmetries and bugs in the stock maps. I think I'm able to do a good job when it nudging some brushes along the grid, making a few props non-solid, and in-general being OCD about clipping planes... while pure artistic vision for a breathtaking two-base vista is a bit further off.

I'd understand rejection of edits on the basis of artistic elitism (they didn't work for their map!) but from a practical adoption-by-Valve standpoint I think edits are a lot more promising.

 

[Don]

We could indeed debate on this for hours aznd hours and we would never find any way out. In my opinion, if valve adds a map to an update, it is a custom map or a NEW map of their own. What they are going to do is not change their current maps and edit the problems in them!

So, recompiled valve maps = [ame="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=909575"]TF2 Bug List - Version 4.1 - Steam Users' Forums[/ame]

Recompiling a map the way you did in revent is only a different way of reporting a bug/problem/etc...

That said, make your own maps or... go on www.fpsbanana.com

 

[Terr]

We could indeed debate on this for hours aznd hours and we would never find any way out. [...] What they are going to do is not change their current maps and edit the problems in them!

It's not a matter of mere opinion that they update maps, remember Goldrush 1-2?

 

[Don]

Well, I made a mistake, I meant ''What they are going to do is not change their current maps but edit the problems in them!''

 

[The Political Gamer]

If you ask me, the odds of getting something of mine accepted Valve are much higher if I just fix asymmetries and bugs in the stock maps. I think I'm able to do a good job when it nudging some brushes along the grid, making a few props non-solid, and in-general being OCD about clipping planes... while pure artistic vision for a breathtaking two-base vista is a bit further off.

So a map that took more time to compile then work on has more of a chance of becoming official then a map say like pl_Fronter that was been worked on for 100s of hours? Sorry but your logic is greatly flawed if you really think Valve would make a re-hash official.

 

[Terr]

I'm saying that it's a lot less risk and work for Valve. Compare:
"Oh, yeah, that list of largely-invisible fixes is good, let's just fix those bugs."
versus
"Let's choose a new community map, buy or license it, go through it and tweak it up, and then wait for everybody in the Steam forums to bitch about the choice."

Tweaking clipping planes, nobuild areas, and prop solidity, with one or two world-brushes moved by <8 units is hardly some sort of terrifying artistically-evil departure from the original, guys.

Perhaps the confusion here is that I have two maps up--one is just the kinds of changes I mentioned (Fixup) the other is based off of those fixes and has much bigger changes (Revamp). I'm just talking about Fixup here. (Especially with the testing time, I've sunk a hell of a lot more time into those than their final-quality compile times, thank-you-very-much.)

 

[uma plata]

Terr, I think a lot of the hostility about remakes is mostly directed towards the "OMG GUISE CHECK OUT MY ALPINE RAINY DUSTBOWL" crowd.

I get the gist of what you're trying to do. While I agree that 2fort would need major layout changes to make it "good", that's not to say minor changes to make it better are a bad idea

At the risk of getting flamed (because I don't care): I think there's a lot of insecurity about creating a totally original work, only to have the attention it would otherwise get co-opted by someone who just recompiles a Valve map with an alpine skybox. I think it's unfounded.

The larger question is why would any mapmaker measure the success of their creative work by the success of someone else's hack job?

Have any servers stopped running Yukon in favor of 2Fort_rainy yet? I've yet to see one