Ms.Pauling as 10th class (my ideas)

[Qersojan]

When I thought about who would best fit as a tenth class, I would think pauling, she is one of the only really liked characters that is one the mercs side but not a merc herself, and I think she deserves the spot more than a completely new character entirely. Im not saying there IS going to be a 10th class, im just telling you what I would like to see from ms pauling as a class.

I described it in fair detail in this google document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1enGM2_rgW8e_yGX5lh-bniSNCS2y1q38bfopNezuCTw/edit however I will summarize my concept.

She will be called the Assistant to keep consistency with the game, 175 health and good speed. Her primary would be a four shot pistol, that does a base damage of 90, and has 100% accuracy with 4 clip. Imagine a shotgun with no spread. thats basically what it is. It would have fall off so it would maker her not good at far or close ranges, but medium range focused similar to the demo. It can headshot for a 121 base damage minicrit. As for her secondary it would be a line gun, it shoots a projectile, and if it hits a healthpack or ammo pack, it will pull it into your hands. You can alt fire to give it to your allies. You cant pick up anything bigger than a medium pack though, so dont worry about you having to face a heavy that can restore ALL of his health in an instant. If you want to use it on your self, you can taunt and it will be used just like a sandvich, if you have a health pack it will restore your health to full, if you have a ammo pack it will restore your ammo to full. Another important feature of this line gun, is that hitting an enemy with it will pull them closer to you. This can help prevent people from escaping you. As for the melee weapon, it will be a sickle that acts basically the same as the bone saw. In the end she would be a defense, offense, and support class all at once, so she would be placed in her own category as to not disturb the 3 class category balance.

What do you guys and girls thing of my idea? Is it over powered or not useful enough? Tell me that and any other ideas you had regarding the subject.

 

[Zed]

This game doesn't need a tenth class and this idea sounds overpowered as shit.

 

[Davekillerish]

This game doesn't need a tenth class and this idea sounds overpowered as shit.

We all think it and you just said it.

 

[Qersojan]

This game doesn't need a tenth class and this idea sounds overpowered as shit.

Well I never really said we did need one.

 

[killohurtz]

I'm bored and no one has offered any explanations for their answer, so I'll go ahead and lay down my thoughts.

First let's talk about your primary. Base damage of 90, 100% accuracy, and ability to headshot for 121 damage. What existing weapon does that sound like?

By comparison, the Ambassador has a base damage penalty that limits it to 15-51 damage per shot, including ramp-up and falloff. It can only fire a bullet with 100% accuracy about once per second, and headshot for 102 damage on this same interval. Firing at a faster rate greatly decreases its accuracy and prevents it from dealing headshot crits. The pistol, stock revolver, and SMG have a similar restriction where they cannot fire with perfect accuracy unless 1.25 seconds have passed since the last bullet was fired. The Ambassador is already rather powerful in the hands of Spies who have a steady aim, so I can't imagine it would be fun facing off against an Assistant with a weapon that is a straight upgrade in every way.

Now, a tool like the line gun would probably be hell to play against because that kind of functionality doesn't play nicely with network prediction. Valve once tried something like it with a reverse-airblasting flamethrower (scroll down to the Sucker) that not only fucked with players on slower connections, but also proved to be too powerful. Given the fact that every class except the Sniper generally deals more damage at close range, getting caught by a line gun and pulled helplessly towards a group of enemies would essentially guarantee a kill. That wouldn't be any fun, would it?

Lastly, the placement of health and ammo pickups is pretty important to the balance of a map, and giving a class the ability to steal them from a distance and move them around (especially to use them on himself) is probably not the best idea. Imagine the frustration of being on fire and having your healthkit stolen by a scout with 120 hp, now made even worse by a class that can snatch it out from under you without even getting close. Imagine trying to build a sentry camp during setup time and several Assistants are running around with your usual ammo packs. It would just open up the potential for a level of griefing that no other class is capable of.

I just don't think there's room for another class in general, since there's already good synergy between the existing nine and it would take a hell of a lot of balancing tweaks to fit in one more.

 

[LeSwordfish]

I actually quite like the health-ammo-movement idea. Perhaps as an alternate engineer secondary, perhaps with the stipulation that if you swap weapons while carrying the pack is lost.

 

[TPC]

This would be a great idea to resurface the VIP game mode in a sense of OFCTF (one flag ctf)although it might be impossible but weirder things have been in tf2...
STORY TIME
the mercs found out she is working for both teams so they are fighting to have Ms Pauling work for them so the start of the round is the two teams fighting to get Ms Pauling, and Who ever gets her plays as her and try to get her out but the other team has to kill her before this happens
SO in a canon story the red scout dies taking a sniper bullet for her then red sniper kills blu sniper and that is how the scout is killed off and the first step towards TF3 (not really because he comes back later because they all forgot about re-spawn so they just left) IF YOU USE THIS IDEA CREDIT ME FOR THE IDEA so she isnt rly a 10th class just the civlian

 

[Qersojan]

I'm bored and no one has offered any explanations for their answer, so I'll go ahead and lay down my thoughts.

First let's talk about your primary. Base damage of 90, 100% accuracy, and ability to headshot for 121 damage. What existing weapon does that sound like?

By comparison, the Ambassador has a base damage penalty that limits it to 15-51 damage per shot, including ramp-up and falloff. It can only fire a bullet with 100% accuracy about once per second, and headshot for 102 damage on this same interval. Firing at a faster rate greatly decreases its accuracy and prevents it from dealing headshot crits. The pistol, stock revolver, and SMG have a similar restriction where they cannot fire with perfect accuracy unless 1.25 seconds have passed since the last bullet was fired. The Ambassador is already rather powerful in the hands of Spies who have a steady aim, so I can't imagine it would be fun facing off against an Assistant with a weapon that is a straight upgrade in every way.

Now, a tool like the line gun would probably be hell to play against because that kind of functionality doesn't play nicely with network prediction. Valve once tried something like it with a reverse-airblasting flamethrower (scroll down to the Sucker) that not only fucked with players on slower connections, but also proved to be too powerful. Given the fact that every class except the Sniper generally deals more damage at close range, getting caught by a line gun and pulled helplessly towards a group of enemies would essentially guarantee a kill. That wouldn't be any fun, would it?

Lastly, the placement of health and ammo pickups is pretty important to the balance of a map, and giving a class the ability to steal them from a distance and move them around (especially to use them on himself) is probably not the best idea. Imagine the frustration of being on fire and having your healthkit stolen by a scout with 120 hp, now made even worse by a class that can snatch it out from under you without even getting close. Imagine trying to build a sentry camp during setup time and several Assistants are running around with your usual ammo packs. It would just open up the potential for a level of griefing that no other class is capable of.

I just don't think there's room for another class in general, since there's already good synergy between the existing nine and it would take a hell of a lot of balancing tweaks to fit in one more.

Very fine points, let me address them. You are thinking "upgrade" as being a problem. The spy and medic are the classes known for having the worst primary game. Plus although it doesnt have a ramp up like ambassador, it has a ramp down, meaning it wont be effective over long ranges, unlike the ambassador which ignores damage fall off on headshots it seems, you wouldnt do all that much if you tried playing like a sniper. As for damage itself, it would be less than a demo man, as it would do 10% less damage in around the same amount of time. If we include headshots the four shot goes up, and including splash, demo man goes up. It WOULD be a better weapon than the grenade launcher, oowever I decided it is fair, as the demo man is most effective with TWO good damage dealing weapons, while the assistant's secondary is not meant for offensive play, and makes up for the extra damage in the primary. So in short I dont see a class' primary being better than the class with the second worst primary in the game as a huge problem.

I see how it could really mess up with prediction and lag. So how about this idea instead? If you hit an enemy with the line gun, it will damage them for 25 and give YOU a small health pack in return. That way you can steal life, but unlike the blutsauger, you can give it to your teammates instead. I do agree that giving it to yourself can be a bit overpowered, so how about i just remove that. If you like that I can edit the thread/document.

As for the griefing I can see why it could be abused. However you can already do that type of trolling as long as you have any self damaging bat. So how do people prevent it from happening? They stand over the pack spawn and wait. The line tool would actually be slightly less effective than regularly pack stealing, as there is a delay, and if theyre standing on the pack's respawn, there is really nothing you can do. I just dont see it being any more effective, than the trolling you can already do. Infact going scout would probably still be a better way of pack stealing. So no I would disagree, its not a more effective troll than anything possible already here, as a scout dedicated to pack stealing WOULD still be a better method.

 

[Zed]

Critical hits by definition are never affected by falloff. It's how the game is coded.

 

[Qersojan]

Critical hits by definition are never affected by falloff. It's how the game is coded.

Well then maybe headshots arent the best idea. I want to keep it a medium range class, so how about no headshots but a base damage of 95?

 

[RodionJenga]

I always saw Ms Pauling as like a class just for admins, with noclip, a ban hammer, mute gun, etc

 

[Mystic Monkey]

I did consider Ms. Pauling could also be tenth class, as the "Civilian". I can imagine her carrying an intel like a traditional briefcase in her hand and her weapons are Scout/Engie pistol and a weak melee weapon. Maybe a pen thats uses Spy's melee animations but can't backstab.

While Ms. Pauling once used the Big Kill to remove the Director, that wasn't gameplay.

Problem is if TF2 reintroduce Hunted gamemode with Ms. Pauling as the Civilian, that means she can't be neutral to to either RED or BLU, given RED will try and kill her while BLU defends her. Plus she will only be playable in one game mode and won't have much selection of additional weapons for VALVe to profit from.

Probably why they oust Hunted from TF2 because they couldn't imagine much variety for the Civilian.

 

[CriminalBunny]

I did consider Ms. Pauling could also be tenth class, as the "Civilian". I can imagine her carrying an intel like a traditional briefcase in her hand and her weapons are Scout/Engie pistol and a weak melee weapon. Maybe a pen thats uses Spy's melee animations but can't backstab.

While Ms. Pauling once used the Big Kill to remove the Director, that wasn't gameplay.

Problem is if TF2 reintroduce Hunted gamemode with Ms. Pauling as the Civilian, that means she can't be neutral to to either RED or BLU, given RED will try and kill her while BLU defends her. Plus she will only be playable in one game mode and won't have much selection of additional weapons for VALVe to profit from.

Probably why they oust Hunted from TF2 because they couldn't imagine much variety for the Civilian.

What if RED team defends Ms. Pauling (as they usually defend) and the old TFC-BLU team is trying to kill her, like the comic books?

It would require 9 more player-models and I don't see TF2C making that either

 

[Mystic Monkey]

What if RED team defends Ms. Pauling (as they usually defend) and the old TFC-BLU team is trying to kill her, like the comic books?

It would require 9 more player-models and I don't see TF2C making that either

I'm honestly suprise theres no custom models made of them in SFM or GMod yet.

We have models of Admin, Pauling, Nicholas Crowder, Jack (boy from Smissmas story), Redmond, Blutarch, Gray, Olivia, Gabe Newell and even female versions of the mercs, in yet no one made Team Fortress Classic models for SFM/GMod Team Fortress 2?
You'd think it be easy given back then TFC were pretty much the same models but reskinned and minor alterations.

Would really like to see TF2 quality TFC models, both as they appeared in the comics and during their prime.

Spoiler

Unrelated, but also suprised no one made an entirely original Santa Claus model as well (one isn't recycled from Heavy). I've been needing one for a Smissmas SFM for years.

 

[Exactol]

Mystic there is a ol' nick model (tf2's equivilant of santa) on the sfm workshop

 

[Mystic Monkey]

Mystic there is a ol' nick model (tf2's equivilant of santa) on the sfm workshop

Yeah but he isn't THE Santa Claus.

I had this SFM idea called 'Soldier conquers Smissmas' and been anting to make it for the last few years.
A classic "Santa can't do Christmas so get protagonist to do it" story with TF2 craziness (such as Soldier rocket jumping up chimneys). It involves BLU Soldier accidentally shooting down Santa's sleigh and has to take over for him to save Christmas, Soldier goes to different TF2 maps where each mercenary "lives", ends up bombing a MvM robot attack and dogfights with Old Nick.

While BLU Soldier did mistake Santa for RED Heavy, I don't want to just make do with a HWGuy model with BMOC and All-Father get up. So I'm waiting for the day a convincing, original Santa Claus model ends up in SFM workshop to star in my Smissmas SFM.
Hopefully by that time I'd be more better with SFM by then.

But getting rather off topic now.

 

[Qersojan]

I did consider Ms. Pauling could also be tenth class, as the "Civilian". I can imagine her carrying an intel like a traditional briefcase in her hand and her weapons are Scout/Engie pistol and a weak melee weapon. Maybe a pen thats uses Spy's melee animations but can't backstab.

While Ms. Pauling once used the Big Kill to remove the Director, that wasn't gameplay.

Problem is if TF2 reintroduce Hunted gamemode with Ms. Pauling as the Civilian, that means she can't be neutral to to either RED or BLU, given RED will try and kill her while BLU defends her. Plus she will only be playable in one game mode and won't have much selection of additional weapons for VALVe to profit from.

Probably why they oust Hunted from TF2 because they couldn't imagine much variety for the Civilian.

I dont understand why you want to make this idea into the civilian. It is the scrapped class, and this is supposed to be something different, talking about a custom playable fighter class. Not a special gamemode about something that can really even be considered a class. I do think your ideas and points are valid, but I would much rather hear your opinions about Ms.Pauling as a merc persay. Not neutral, not an objective, but a playable class.

It is also an interesting idea for someone to BE the objective. Like have someone playing as the thing your team needs to protect, I see awful griefing potential, like the target making their team lose on purpose, but I do think it would be interesting in a more competitive sense to have a gamemode whilst you have to keep this target passive class alive.

 

[Davekillerish]

Im sure the scout would love to 'capture the objective' if it was Ms.Pauling.
edit:
And now you know why the gamemode was scrapped.

 

[Mystic Monkey]

I dont understand why you want to make this idea into the civilian. It is the scrapped class, and this is supposed to be something different, talking about a custom playable fighter class. Not a special gamemode about something that can really even be considered a class. I do think your ideas and points are valid, but I would much rather hear your opinions about Ms.Pauling as a merc persay. Not neutral, not an objective, but a playable class.

It is also an interesting idea for someone to BE the objective. Like have someone playing as the thing your team needs to protect, I see awful griefing potential, like the target making their team lose on purpose, but I do think it would be interesting in a more competitive sense to have a gamemode whilst you have to keep this target passive class alive.

Having a tenth merc would seriously unbalance the game though. And I am not talking about how much damage they deal, or what they do but Team Fortress 2 has a very specific balance of class that all comes down to "3".

3 classes with 3 mercs for each of them. Power of three.

If a tenth mercenary was introduced then it would either have to go into one of the three classes, which their presence will unbalance them, or a fourth new clas will have to be introduced which means either 2 or 7 new mercs will need to be introduced to balance the gameplay out. It's always been nine mercs back since Team Fortress was just a mod for Quake.

As for Civilian griefing, I guess it was possible back then., I remember playing Team Fortress Classic in school but LAN only but never actually had the game. Dunno what kind of greifing was done back then other than running into bullets. But I know some Civilians master bunnyhopping in order to reach the end at incredible speed.

Team Fortress 2 was going to have another tenth class called "Commander" whom served as team leader, real time stradegist, air support and buildings and would guide players towards victory. However Valve scrapped him because of complicated player relations between commander and mercs, such as mercs who rather do their own thing and such.