Mapping Ethics w/ Valve assets

[meatpopsicle]

Hello,

I haven't done any mapping for 10 years (since DOOM2) and I had a question about mapping ethics.

Is it ethical to copy & paste sections of a valve map into your own map?

Example: I like a particular stair well that is built with func-details; since I'm not super experienced about what the right step size and other items I considered copying the stairs into my map?

Is that bad? Is it ok? Why?

thanks for your thoughts

meat

 

[drp]

stairways? sure. id go even as far as copying an entire skybox.
but copying more than 15% of the map is sketchy in my book.

 

[MrTwitch]

I honestly don't find this very ethical. There's nothing wrong with being inspired by one of their maps or taking notes form it but why would you need to copy something when Hammer is probably the easier map editing program out there? There really isn't anything the Valve developers did that you wouldn't be able to replicate through time and patience. Building a map is like anything, it takes commitment and I'm sure you and others will appreciate your map a whole lot more if it's 100% your our creation.
If anyone started copy/pasting out of one of my maps I think i would find it fairly frustrating personally.

 

[Buster Charlie]

anything you copy would benefit you more as a mapper if you used it to learn how to do it yourself and become a better mapper.

 

[A Boojum Snark]

For the item in question: valve seems to like their stairs 8 high and 12 long. (that's what the wooden staircase model has anyway, so I go with it)

 

[Ziggurat]

For the item in question: valve seems to like their stairs 8 high and 12 long. (that's what the wooden staircase model has anyway, so I go with it)

I don't think that's even that useful, because the models are just covered with clip brushes which are actually much wider than the stair models. You can check this out in 2fort using r_drawclipbrushes.

 

[Scoobingsthe2nd]

I've never copied anything directly. I do however have every map of valves on my desktop as a constant reference. They're good to have.

 

[A Boojum Snark]

I don't think that's even that useful, because the models are just covered with clip brushes which are actually much wider than the stair models. You can check this out in 2fort using r_drawclipbrushes.

Looking at the decompile it seems that yes they do use clip brushes, but they are just clip ramps that cover the slope of the stairs exactly meaning it's still a 2:3 ratio (8 high 12 deep stairs). However I also see that the brush-based stairs are 12:16 making them slightly steeper (though still covered with a clip ramp).

 

[Dox]

I feel dirty just using valve textures, but im still a little vauge on the TF2 style so im not going to make my own yet.

 

[meatpopsicle]

Hey Guys,

Back from thanksgiving holiday sorry for my lack of reply for a few days. Thanks for the insight and discussion.

I hope to have 100% of my own textures in this map, and am also aiming for 100% of my own brushwork. When I thought about doing it .. obviously the question immediately came up and its hard to tell how others would feel but when making my own map it felt like the wrong choice.

I do wish I would have time or resources to make all my own props but that would take my development cycle waaaay up in time and I would be in larger risk of not looking & feeling like TF2 if I can't keep with their art style.

peace and thanks for responses!

meat

 

[Snipergen]

i once started with a counterstrike source map but with the style of bioshock, started my own models and textures. All i had was in this screenshot and the bsp was 15mb ALREADY.. i was like fuck this this will not be possible to send this over the servers

 

[Saikan]

I think copying anything out of Valve's maps is fine. After all, you're using Valve's textures, models, skyboxes, etc. How can you draw a line?

If you copy something out because you don't understand it or you don't know how to build your own, then you shouldn't copy, you should learn and do it.