Map chirality: Mirror image bases have a bias?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Terr, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    If you're making a 5CP or CTF map which is using mirror symmetry, how much should you care about the subtle differences caused by how several weapons shoot from the right-hand?

    It seems to make a difference when it comes to taking down sentries, especially with grenades or the rocket-launcher. Would you alter the arrangements of boxes or cover within one base in order to get practical symmetry over layout symmetry? Should mappers care about the "lefties" who can now sort-of-glitchily choose to shoot from their left-hand side?
    __________

    Side musing:

    Many CTF and 5CP maps have radial symmetry, with several good reasons. For example, it makes it easier to learn a single layout.

    However, with PLR maps Valve seems to have decided that a radial symmetry or S-curve layout would make it hard to keep both bombs near each other. Instead, they seem to have gone to mirror symmetry and C-curves (as with the first two stages of plr_pipeline) in order to keep the racing bombs generally nearby each other.​
     
  2. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    Since you can now select if you want to be left handed or right handed, it doesn't really matter does it?
     
  3. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    Myself I tend to assume everyone will have it set to right-handed. You need to disconnect from the server to change it, after all.
     
  4. Remix

    Remix L69: Deviant Member

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    It makes a difference in rocket jumping. If you have ever played the map bball, it is obvious that it changes rocket jumping. It is far easier to do the boosting jump off the fence on the right side than it is on the left side. That is because at an extremely close range, the rocket actually shoots to the right of the player, instead of going down the middle. This allows the player to only have to face the wall to be propelled forward.

    However, if the player attempts the same rocket jump on the left side, he must turn all the way around in order to achieve the same affect. I think this is a pretty different change, because it will allow the soldier who can do walljumps from the right to take less damage and go further, while the soldier on the left will take more damage and not go as far.

    In truth though, this really shouldn't matter in competitive play, considering both teams should switch at half. So both teams get the slight advantage for at least one half, and I don't think it is a huge advantage.

    As far as displacing props to offset the unbalance, you shouldn't need to do that. It would be too much work in the long haul, and you could end up reverse unbalancing teams if you aren't careful.
     
  5. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Actually last I heard you could use a "cheat" to switch while connected to a server. I havn't tried it but I think you do whatever the command is in the console proceeded by "info" and you can switch while connected.
     
  6. alecom

    alecom L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    I don't like mirror maps, it makes it a bit more confusing when you switch sides and takes longer to learn the map.. at least with pipeline anyway :/

    IMO they should be mirrored AND flipped
     
  7. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    Thats what I mean by radial symmetry. (Specifically, radial symmetry where there are only two segments.)
     
  8. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    The ability to change handedness has lessened these concerns in mirrored maps, but not eliminated them. However, I also don't think the difference between left and right is usually that critical. In cases where something does come up, like a sentry position that can be cornered easily in one half but not the other half, the layout should be planned so that a player can choose a different path or position to achieve roughly the same results.

    To put it more plainly, if you're making a mirrored map, don't make all paths leading into an area corner on the same side. Or provide more than one wall (on different sides) to rocket off of.