Jarate Unvieled!

[drp]

Mar, evidently you can't do math, or something.

35% dmg is BASICALLY taking off a third of someone's health. It means you'll kill them in 1 uncharged headshot instead of 2, and jarate won't need to be a headshot, nor would it slow you down while firing it (the equivalent of scoping.) This is an incredibly useful weapon that's a starter rather than a finisher like the smg. Airshotting people with piss is going to be amazing. Dumping piss on medics is going to be amazing. Airshotting a flaming teammate across the map with piss to safe their life is going to be amazing.

this

 

[drp]

I (mostly) agree with you, toboruin. Personally, my problem is not with its function (which is great), but its design. It is immature, but that's not the point (I applaud Valve's immaturity), it's just that a jar of urine is such a bizarre choice for a weapon. I think the only reason they used a jar of urine was for the humour factor - which should never be first priority in design imo.

Still - I'm willing to accept this, I'm not gonna moan and complain like so many do. I'm just slightly disappointed, knowing that they could have done better.

i agree, but technically EVERYTHING can be done better. perfection is unreachable.
the great thing about unlocks is that they are by choice. they arent replacements for anything in the game, just options. you can choose not to use any of the unlocks.

 

[TMP]

I feel like I'm the only person who's thinking "I hope I can reflect that >"

 

[YM]

I feel like I'm the only person who's thinking "I hope I can reflect that >"

well I'm not, but I've already explained why I use the BB isntead of the regular one

 

[Hawk]

One hugely important detail that's still unclear is how far you can toss the jar. Some of you guys are acting like it can be chucked across the map, others are acting like you have to run into the heat of battle to be close enough. How good a weapon Jarate is would depend highly on which one of these is right.

But I can't imagine that throwing a jar across the map would be better than simply charging up for a good headshot. I mean, that's probably how long it would take the pee to get there, anyway. I think Jarate is for the enemies that get behind your front lines to be a threat to snipers.

Team Fortress 3 should be a great game when it comes out in the future if the changes from TFC to TF2 and their current development is anything to go by.

And we'll get it in 2018.

 

[Radenska]

The smg is a mid range weapon. How are 99% of snipers out there going to get a mid range headshot? Also, we need to know the range of this weapon. From what we have so far it looks like a close range weapon. This means the sniper has to charge out to hit enemies, and that the piss jar won't be able to used from a distance. How is the jarate going to save you when you have to go toe to toe with another class?


My friend here had a very nice post about how the gimmickiness of the jarate.

Quote:
Time to stop with the gimmicks valve.

By implementing jarate into the snipers arsenal, valve has completely butchered the role of the sniper. His job is not to suicide run into groups of enemies with the hope of a teammate coming to take the opportunity he created.
The medic update was the best update so far, primarily because they put the class itself first, not taking the opportunity to add a cameo appearance of some of the equipment from a meet the class video into the game itself. This is just valve's creative department being brain-dead and trying to be cute as a substitute.

Look at the sandvich, NOBODY USES IT! Why? because it wasn't thought out correctly. Valve's thought process when creating a new weapon for a class should be: "How can I give players a different way to approach this weapon without compromising the premise of the class?"
instead of "Maybe if I add a weapon that points back to a meet the class video, people will forgive me for being lazy and going on a burger break today"

You have to consider that Valve has pretty openly stated their goal with the new weapons is to give other play/role options for the classes through these updates. For instance:

"We want him to give up some of his primary advantage in return for something else, so that enemies he kills feel like they were engaged with them, and feel like they could have survived if they'd just managed to fight a little better."

"Goal: Make the Heavy more viable when he has no Medic to pair with."

The big picture, though: They're free, they're based on achievements (which are easy-enough to get if you find a map for them), and they're not mandatory.

Could they be better or worse designed? What couldn't be, really? Not every weapon has been stellar, but why are they going to spend so much time and hype around giving weapons that don't do anything much different than what they're replacing? They spent enough time on the first slew of weapons that shipped with the game, so if you like em, great! Stick with them! I don't mean to invalidate your opinion, don't get me wrong, but you've got to give them the benefit of the doubt realistically - we still have yet to play with these new toys, so all our chatter is speculation so far.

And I'm sorry, but your friend does not have a very nice post there. It's a rude assumption, and is something I'd expect from fans on the WoW forums - not repeated on a community-developer forum. We know better than that.

"In the end, solutions almost always require tradeoffs, from the breaking of a constraint to the addition of a large chunk of work to solve understandability. A framework for objective evaluation is a great tool, but ultimately, something also needs to be fun, and that's hard to evaluate on paper. We try to end our design meetings with three potential solutions, and then implement crude versions of each. Playtesting those crude versions usually shows us some pros and cons that we didn't see in the meeting. Solving those cons, without giving up any of the pros, is the real meat of game design." - Robin Walker. (Please don't take their process for granted.)

 

[eyefork]

I thought when you equip it, there would be an animation of taking the lid off the jar. Firing it would involve splashing it out of the jar. I guess we will find out later today :mellow:

 

[Phobos]

But I can't imagine that throwing a jar across the map would be better than simply charging up for a good headshot.

Imagine your cp is cluttered with enemies. You are fairly close (for whatever reason) and have Jarate equipped. You throw it on them and they take increased damage. And now imagine there's an allied Heavy or Soldier around to wipe the cp clean in 2 seconds thanks to your preparation.

It's situational, like Sandvich and Bonk, but probably better than those two.

 

[Hawk]

Imagine your cp is cluttered with enemies. You are fairly close (for whatever reason) and have Jarate equipped. You throw it on them and they take increased damage. And now imagine there's an allied Heavy or Soldier around to wipe the cp clean in 2 seconds thanks to your preparation.

It's situational, like Sandvich and Bonk, but probably better than those two.

That's a good point, I forgot how useful it is for groups of people. I'd suppose you could chuck a jar at the group pushing the cart in the same manner.

 

[Sgt Frag]

Spies, urine trouble

LOL, that was the best part of this update! ABBA winz.

The Jarate is a strange choice. It's cool that it has multiple uses.
I'm not offended but it does seem like a fairly childish upgrade, whatever.
I think on the whole I am really gonna dig this update, probably more than the others. I come from a game where the bow with a perfect arch is a prime weapon.
I'm gonna own with snipe now

Really looking foward to the spies weapons too.

Plus Valve is Win for finally updating more than one class at once. Sure, there's gonna be a spy sniper fest, but at least it wont be a sniper fest, or a spy fest. It'll help spread the chaos out SOME.
--------
However the maps I'm not excited about.

Arena is fine, I like it but the one that is supposed to be good for snipers with long skinny paths to the cap. I don't know...

The pl race thing looks sucky to me, it seems like the race is just to the top of the hill on skinny little platforms.

I'm thinking Valve may have had a relapse of common sense.

But I'll have to wait for update to make a final opinion.

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My fear is that some updates are making some classes harder.
pyro

try killing a team on a moving dispenser with a medic without dying. Can be very tough, not impossible but tough.
Before you had to watch water and medics that could heal people you burn.
Now you have to watch for jarate.
plus scouts with the blowback/stop/instant kill weapon. Its almost impossible to even get close or get away, and if you do light them up there's a good chance you still die and they still run off for health/medic/water/jarate.

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On the editors PLUS side. The new arena map has SPINNING sawblades. Did they fix func_rotate?????????

 

[Radenska]

Imagine your cp is cluttered with enemies. You are fairly close (for whatever reason) and have Jarate equipped. You throw it on them and they take increased damage. And now imagine there's an allied Heavy or Soldier around to wipe the cp clean in 2 seconds thanks to your preparation.

It's situational, like Sandvich and Bonk, but probably better than those two.

I could see this being really powerful when the enemies are too close for sniping to be an option all of sudden, of course if it can hit multiple targets in a spread. It'd almost be an anti-turtling weapon then, or at the least help flush areas out.

 

[TMP]

My fear is that some updates are making some classes harder.
pyro

try killing a team on a moving dispenser with a medic without dying. Can be very tough, not impossible but tough.
Before you had to watch water and medics that could heal people you burn.
Now you have to watch for jarate.
plus scouts with the blowback/stop/instant kill weapon. Its almost impossible to even get close or get away, and if you do light them up there's a good chance you still die and they still run off for health/medic/water/jarate.

That's not a problem.

The scout update produced a worse problem than this will.

 

[TheBladeRoden]

I really hope steam crapping out is a sign of the impending update


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[Hawk]

I couldn't maintain a connection to Steam even after the update. The whole time while playing the new maps I couldn't access the character customization layout because I wasn't connected. It was irritating.