Jarate Unvieled!

[Mar]

I think most people are underestimating the SMG. The SMG can finish someone off when they get in your face or deal substantial damage at mid range. This costs you the time to switch to and from for only a 35% damage bonus, after which you have to use the sniper rifle or melee. The sniper rifle will get you killed because you'll deal less damage over all and melee will get you killed because it's melee.

So do you want a weapon that can kill, or a weapon that will assist in killing?

 

[cornontheCoD]

I think most people are underestimating the SMG. The SMG can finish someone off when they get in your face or deal substantial damage at mid range. This costs you the time to switch to and from for only a 35% damage bonus, after which you have to use the sniper rifle or melee. The sniper rifle will get you killed because you'll deal less damage over all and melee will get you killed because it's melee.

So do you want a weapon that can kill, or a weapon that will assist in killing?

You're forgetting that teammates will probably damage them more also. I see it as a great teamwork weapon.

 

[Mar]

But when is a sniper up in the action?

Another valve contradiction.

From the blog.

Even worse was dying to someone who you couldn't have engaged with, even if you chose to. In that case, you're very unlikely to believe you could have done anything differently to survive.

Then why the f*** did you make the sandman, Valve?

 

[MrAlBobo]

Even worse was dying to someone who you couldn't have engaged with, even if you chose to. In that case, you're very unlikely to believe you could have done anything differently to survive.

Then why the f*** did you make the sandman, Valve?

christ...don't start this...some comp guy joined one of my games and started spamming this type of crap...its surprisingly irritating <_<

 

[Shmitz]

Purely in terms of function, it's an interesting idea. But honestly, I hope this is the last non-weapon weapon slot option. Surely there are ways of expanding on a class's established character that aren't also losing sight of the game's combat-oriented theme.

When they get to Engineer, I don't care how badass that potted plant is... I want to hug guns, not trees.

 

[Engineer]

I dont care what you all say, but i like Jarate...

 

[MangyCarface]

Mar, evidently you can't do math, or something.

35% dmg is BASICALLY taking off a third of someone's health. It means you'll kill them in 1 uncharged headshot instead of 2, and jarate won't need to be a headshot, nor would it slow you down while firing it (the equivalent of scoping.) This is an incredibly useful weapon that's a starter rather than a finisher like the smg. Airshotting people with piss is going to be amazing. Dumping piss on medics is going to be amazing. Airshotting a flaming teammate across the map with piss to safe their life is going to be amazing.

 

[bittman]

Don't whine about the Sandman. It's the one of the easiest weapons to dodge in the game given it doesn't work at short range and trajectory is hard to master.

Anyway, as an Australian I'm un-offended by the Jarate item and I'm quite surprised the rest of you are either offended by it or believe Valve has done something immature after making a large amount of immature things related to gore before this.

See, I could get by letting my little cousins watch me throw a jar of piss as a weapon, they'd laugh at the sordid joke and move on. On the other hand, if I showed them some of the gibs I worry they might just be plain shocked and sickened by it and I'd have to answer to their mothers.

So in short, "immature joke" maybe. Offensive, not really. Amazing how badly inundated the Steam Forums are with arguments about it's level of maturity like something we do 3 times a day is the most disgusting thing ever.

*shrugs* I really don't get it. I've seen worse on TF2 and in hundreds of PG (Parental Guidance) and M15+ (Mature 15+) movies where a joke of someone being pissed on in . Why does having it in a game change everything?

 

[Mar]

Mar, evidently you can't do math, or something.

35% dmg is BASICALLY taking off a third of someone's health. It means you'll kill them in 1 uncharged headshot instead of 2, and jarate won't need to be a headshot, nor would it slow you down while firing it (the equivalent of scoping.) This is an incredibly useful weapon that's a starter rather than a finisher like the smg. Airshotting people with piss is going to be amazing. Dumping piss on medics is going to be amazing. Airshotting a flaming teammate across the map with piss to safe their life is going to be amazing.

The smg is a mid range weapon. How are 99% of snipers out there going to get a mid range headshot? Also, we need to know the range of this weapon. From what we have so far it looks like a close range weapon. This means the sniper has to charge out to hit enemies, and that the piss jar won't be able to used from a distance. How is the jarate going to save you when you have to go toe to toe with another class?


My friend here had a very nice post about how the gimmickiness of the jarate.

Time to stop with the gimmicks valve.

By implementing jarate into the snipers arsenal, valve has completely butchered the role of the sniper. His job is not to suicide run into groups of enemies with the hope of a teammate coming to take the opportunity he created.
The medic update was the best update so far, primarily because they put the class itself first, not taking the opportunity to add a cameo appearance of some of the equipment from a meet the class video into the game itself. This is just valve's creative department being brain-dead and trying to be cute as a substitute.

Look at the sandvich, NOBODY USES IT! Why? because it wasn't thought out correctly. Valve's thought process when creating a new weapon for a class should be: "How can I give players a different way to approach this weapon without compromising the premise of the class?"
instead of "Maybe if I add a weapon that points back to a meet the class video, people will forgive me for being lazy and going on a burger break today"

 

[Artesia]

Mar, evidently you can't do math, or something.

35% dmg is BASICALLY taking off a third of someone's health. It means you'll kill them in 1 uncharged headshot instead of 2, and jarate won't need to be a headshot, nor would it slow you down while firing it (the equivalent of scoping.) This is an incredibly useful weapon that's a starter rather than a finisher like the smg. Airshotting people with piss is going to be amazing. Dumping piss on medics is going to be amazing. Airshotting a flaming teammate across the map with piss to safe their life is going to be amazing.

it doesn't have a scope on it, and at most I can see it being only ~20 feet or so, even shorter is more likely. so I doubt you'll be able to "Airshot" anyone (w/e airshotting is)

 

[cornontheCoD]

This is the best post in the history of the world.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=867565

 

[bittman]

Sigh. Some people don't get how useful is Jarate.

Let me put you in a scenario where you aren't a Sniper. You are a Soldier, you turn around to find your Sniper hassled by a Scout. Sniper has Jarate, and the Scout gets covered in piss.

Without a moment's hesitation, I would target Scout as the highest priority because:
A) I can save the Sniper
B) I can get a kill/point in 1 half-decent shot.

Let's be serious, of course a Sniper isn't going to go to the front lines to throw pee at people and run away, that's basically a kamikaze attack. Jarate is like basically highlighting enemies for your team if your in trouble for them to save you. I go out of my way to follow up on enemies that are near death, I would go out of my way to follow up on enemies that are Jarate'd.

So it defends you, by calling your team-mates for help and an easier kill.

Seems fine to me. SMG only lets me take out 10-20 healthpoints before I get killed anyway.

 

[Mar]

Seems fine to me. SMG only lets me take out 10-20 healthpoints before I get killed anyway.

10-20 damage? If you can aim the SMG, (just like the spy's revolver) it can pack some serious punch.

 

[Ida]

The effect of the weapon is fine by me. I quite like it, and I can see myself replacing the Kukri/SMG (whatever it's a replacement for) with this.

However, I'm not at all happy about the fact that it is, well, Jarate. It's too gimmicky. Hell, the sandvich was too gimmicky in my opinion, not to mention Bonk. Am I the only one who thinks this "silly" weapon is not the least funny?

Not to mention I want a gun. Or a knife. Not a god damn jar.

EDIT: Also, lol: http://www.ubercharged.net/2009/05/21/jarate-origins/

 

[DaBeatzProject]

I dunno, if you don't like jarate, don't use it. And.. wait for the update and think again then

 

[Ravidge]

I'm just sad the sniper didn't get something I could look at and say "WOW, that looks like a sweet weapon!". Just like when I saw the picture of the new spy gun.

Spy got cool stuff.
Sniper got silly stuff.

I'm only talking about looks. Nothing else.

 

[Shaar]

what I find greatly ironic, is that people complain that the sniper is not a team player as it were, and he just stays at the back and pics off people, with them having little to no chance to attack the sniper, thus meaning they can't survive well, to combat this problem, valve make more close range weapons and team based weapons, e.g. the huntsman and jarate.

this makes the sniper a more friendly support class. rather than just picking off people from a distance, he can become more of a team player, by putting out fire, or, making it easier to kill a hard target, e.g. a heavy. (Which will go down in about 4 rather than 5 rockets, if jarate'd).

Before this update, the all the support classes had atleast two roles. medics were able to heal and supply ubers. spys were able to pick off the heavier classes, as well as slip into the enemy team and provide recon (Especally useful in clan matches more so than pubs). the sniper however, just stayed at the back and picked off people, which could have been done by the spy.

the update also makes the sniper more viable to play, there are only a few select places one can play sniper in valve maps, which pretty much makes the sniper a unplayable class in some maps, or atleast restricts him to one or two places. and this becomes especally hard for new players to get into that class. with this update, the sniper becomes more viable for other places. he is more free to move, with the one second charge up time, he could release a bow, at close range, and then flee back for cover, or he could throw a jarate at a random enemy and then retreat back.

it may be a gimmicy weapon, but it does it's job. which is to make the sniper much more of a team player. the same thing for the boink energy drink; which makes the scout that bit more viable on Attack Defend maps when there is 10 sentries on the enemy team.

besides if you think a jar of piss is immature, then that's just pretty stupid, team fortress 2 is not a game that is ment to be taken in a serious nature; if it was, then they wouldn't make maps the way they are. tf2 is supposed to have that small bit of immaturity, which is what gives the game it's character. otherwise it'd just be another CS:S/COD/Other FPS.

Final point: I'd be pretty sure urine is used as a weapon, and I think it is able to blind people (Which I'm pretty sure you'd rather not have that as an effect for the jarate). plus the weapon does fit in with the update in a way, tribes people always try to maximise the useage out of what the "harvest" (Couldn't think of a better word here), so it would make sense for them to use urine for something.

 

[Ida]

I (mostly) agree with you, toboruin. Personally, my problem is not with its function (which is great), but its design. It is immature, but that's not the point (I applaud Valve's immaturity), it's just that a jar of urine is such a bizarre choice for a weapon. I think the only reason they used a jar of urine was for the humour factor - which should never be first priority in design imo.

Still - I'm willing to accept this, I'm not gonna moan and complain like so many do. I'm just slightly disappointed, knowing that they could have done better.

 

[Phobos]

I (mostly) agree with you, toboruin. Personally, my problem is not with its function (which is great), but its design. It is immature, but that's not the point (I applaud Valve's immaturity), it's just that a jar of urine is such a bizarre choice for a weapon. I think the only reason they used a jar of urine was for the humour factor - which should never be first priority in design imo.

Still - I'm willing to accept this, I'm not gonna moan and complain like so many do. I'm just slightly disappointed, knowing that they could have done better.

I completely agree. Well said MuffinMan.

EDIT:
I'm still puzzled about the used loadout slots. Jarate is in the SMG slot, proved by the Jarate Chop achievement. But the Razorback doesn't sound like a melee weapon, especially because it can break. So two replacements for the SMG like the two replacements for the watch?

 

[bittman]

Valve is at a point with Team Fortress 2 where I would begin to call it "experimental". We've seen the headgears, we've seen the status effects, people have talked about MMO-likeness. Very different game modes have come to fruition, unlocks have been tried using achievements and the sidegrades of some weapons have been very VERY different.

All in all, Valve has probably made all they are going to from Team Fortress 2, everything from here on in is basically an experiment on us to pave the way for TF3 or another project whilst keeping a community active.

So when we talk of immaturity, it isn't something that will hurt Valve. The minimal amount of sales they'll make with the update will relate to the minimal amount of users it loses for a short time with some sort of complaint. But most importantly, they get a reaction for their antics and survey it.

In summary: Valve are smarter than you may believe. They easily knew that Jarate would get some negative feedback from the April Fools post and continued with it to further experiment how it being real would affect everyone and how far they can push the players.

Team Fortress 3 should be a great game when it comes out in the future if the changes from TFC to TF2 and their current development is anything to go by.