KotH Inwell

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Ashley, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. Ashley

    Ashley L1: Registered

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    Hello all!

    After months of lurking here on the forums and observing what you guys do, and after many, MANY, failed maps (whether it be to a hammer issue or gameplay issue) I have finally produced a map I am finally happy with.

    KOTH_Inwell (name is subject to change)

    As it stands right now, I do not know what art style I want the map to be in, although I am leaning towards a industrial-style map thus far.

    I currently have no play testing aside from me just running around the map, and I would like some feedback on the map so far.

    Yes, I understand that the map at this point has sloppy brushwork, inconsistent props, and a LOT of clipping issues (I haven't yet done a clipping pass of the map). I understand that it's not a perfect map, but whether or not it's a complete pile of crap, is up to you. It looks and flows better then some of the less than satisfactory maps I've seen that have been put on the site.

    Regardless, please let me know what you all think of it based on the screenshots and downloading it ant running around on it yourselves! :)

    Thank you to:
    ABS for his door prefabs
    UEAKCrash for helping clear up a few issues via his tutorial series
    zpq for some of his lighting prefabs

    Regards,
    Ashley
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
  2. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Hi Ashley! Welcome aboard!

    I'm sure you're aware of some of this, but I thought it might be helpful. Hopefully I don't overwhelm you!

    http://puu.sh/ize2T/ec3fc01180.jpg
    These doors both open when I enter one trigger. The most common cause is you cloned the doors rather than placing another one. Red side doesn't appear to have this issue.

    http://puu.sh/ize6y/1490aca191.jpg
    These two black spots are probably from degenerate faces. They typically come from invalid solids, or parts of your map where VBSP (the program that compiles the brushwork and ents) doesn't know what you're trying to do.

    http://puu.sh/izeae/8b1a15afe1.jpg
    Not sure if it's intentional or just something you skipped for now, but standing up here seems a little odd and maybe cheap.

    http://puu.sh/izec9/6ca74fe0fc.jpg
    When making lips like this, don't make them over 16 units tall, or add a playerclip brush to ease the transition. 16u is the max height a player can walk up without hitting it as a wall instead. You can see more useful measurements here.

    http://puu.sh/izega/5dc48e6b2c.jpg
    I don't know what's causing it, but these fences appear and disappear seemingly at random when I approach them.

    http://puu.sh/izejo/991a621a20.jpg
    This board is levitating!

    http://puu.sh/izelD/027459a772.jpg
    http://puu.sh/izem3/f981f9b29c.jpg
    This is my opinion, but tucking ammo/health away like that seems like a great way to ensure players are killed because they get snagged on geometry while trying to reload/heal. Also, corners like this will snag players a lot or break splash damage. You can still do it of course, but you'll want to clip them. It's probably best to also turn these kinds of trims into func_details.

    http://puu.sh/izePl/f576e57575.jpg
    Maybe Crash hasn't covered this yet, but you can use vertex editing :vertextool: or the clipping tool :clippingtool: to make ramps. They're a bit different, so maybe check the Valve wiki or ask in chat about how to use them best. One thing to note is that when using these tools, it's very easy to create invalid shapes and cause real, actual damage to your vmf, so be careful. When using the vertex tool in particular, you'll want to make sure that if you place one edge on another, it asks you if you'd like to merge vertices. Otherwise you'll get an invalid solid! You can also select the shape after and press ctrl+b to snap everything to the grid if it doesn't ask you, which should do it.

    http://puu.sh/izesv/21689e72b3.jpg
    I know you said you're aware your brushwork is messy, but I wanted to point this out. There are a lot of places where it's clear you were working at a low grid level or with snap to grid off. In general, I think most people rarely dip below the 16u mark during alphas, especially early ones. Stuff like this might seem relatively unimportant when you're starting, but having good brushwork fundamentals is really important for turning maps into completed projects. Not only will better brushwork help your optimization and compile time, but all these tiny 1 or 2 unit differences are breaking splash damage (yes, really, even that does it) and it'll also help you avoid leaks. Also, detailing and adjusting parts of the map is a lot simpler when everything is internally consistent.

    You should probably turn your fog settings down, as I can barely see across the point as it is. By the way, the point seems pretty large and open, but we should play it before judging completely. Do you know about game days and impromptus?

    Overall I think this is a great start and I hope you stick with it!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  3. Ashley

    Ashley L1: Registered

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    Thank you for the feedback, looking back on a lot of the brushwork I probably should go back on it and streamline it and make it neat. It makes sense, what you said about it being easier in the long run and compiling stuff.

    I was also kind of worried about the mid point because of it's size but I haven't had a chance to play it in a game as of yet, I'll probably wait until I get some more stuff smoothed out before I try to do anything with the gamedays and/or impromptus.

    Overall did you notice any issues with the over flow or layout of the map that could pose an issue?

    I hope that it'll get better and better as time goes on, but there's really only one way to tell, and that's to work on it and see.
     
  4. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    I thought it was interesting how both teams have two routes to the point. One is longer and provides a better vantage, while the other is shorter and more dangerous. It's an interesting concept. Honestly, I don't think it will play too well, but I also think you have to get it tested in a game day or impromptu test before you'll really understand why or how. Also, I think it's a great idea (especially for new mappers) to do things that us Old People think won't work, either to prove us wrong or learn why firsthand.
     
  5. Anreol

    Anreol L6: Sharp Member

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    About that, the 2 paths, one longer but better vantage, and the other, shorter but more dangerous, its like asteroid.
    In asteroid you have 2 options, go trough the vents: its longer but "safe".
    And the lasers, that its shorter, but very dangerous.
     
  6. MaccyF

    aa MaccyF Notoriously Unreliable

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    I was under the impression that the entire of asteroid is designed around this Idea. For example there's the lasers vs vents, water vs balcony vs bridge, and bridge vs tunnels vs flanks.

    It's like a version of 2 fort that's actually well designed
     
  7. Vincent

    aa Vincent 🔨 Grandmaster Lizard Wizard Jedi 🔨

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    Hey now I wouldn't go that far.
     
  8. takabuschik

    aa takabuschik

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    Compliments never killed anybody :)
     
  9. MaccyF

    aa MaccyF Notoriously Unreliable

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    ok well at least thoughtfully designed :p