CP Incan
- Thread starter Hooked
- Start date
Hey there! (Warning, big wall o' feedback. You can eat this up as you wish).
Here's some feedback I have based on a quick run through of your map.
First off: Set up time is really short. How is red going to be able to get to the point if they don't have the time! Set up time is there to give red a chance to build up a defense that blu has to fight there. If you want to keep the short setup time, you'll need to think of something that will give red the ability to jump ahead the first point quicker so they actually have a chance to defend.
Secondly: You forgot to pack your grass texture! (oh noes!). You'll want to use a program like PakRat or VIDE (I suggest PakRat, ignore all others
) to pack in any custom textures, models, particles, etc, you use in your maps.
The map in the beginning is a little open, and a little flat. Open is usually okay, but open and flat isn't. I think I see what type of opening yard you're trying to create and I think looking at Badwaters opening yard is the way to go. You'll see that it has some interesting gameplay elements to fight on/around and is curved up (then down) so that you don't get crazy sightlines. (You have some crazy sightlines which you'll want to smoosh).
Some of your rooms are really dark. You'll want to add some basic lighting to those rooms, people need to see who's on what team so they aren't blindly firing at random people!
After the first point, you have some very narrow routes to the next point. Your route seperation is okay, but you could really use some more width to them, so demo's, soldier, pyros and heavy's dominate. the general rule of thumb I like to follow is that you want to have room for 3 players to move by each other without touching. (generally, 128 wide hallways are okay). This is just the general roll, you can have narrow hallways in TF2, but you need to be careful how you place them. This is one of those times where I think it should be wider.
Same thing goes for this route, but it needs cover! It'd be a cool route for the attackers to use, but with its narrowness and lack of cover, they're sitting ducks on a cliff!
I love this area here, I think the geometry and setting you've put together is awesome, but I feel like it could use a little more pizzaz. It needs something to make it exciting. Right now, it's flat and a little too open. Maybe another building to give people even more height advantage? Or maybe just a small platform to give some height variance. You want your players to have to look around for the enemy, not just turn and keep their crosshair on the same level.
Finally, I love the huge downhill you have for final. I think it's really interesting and I would love to see how you develop it further. My concern is that it's a REALLY big down hill that doesn't have a lot of cover. This works both ways. Red can easily hit attackers and blu have a massive advantage over red since they have the high ground. Maybe reduce the height of the hill (bring the point and spawn up) and give it some nice cover?
Also, your final point could use a little more interesting geo. Right now it's 2 spawn doors overlooking a flat yard with a point raized up in the middle. Give it some fun! some Pizzaz!
Overall, I love where you're going with this. It's got a lot of the basic design theory stuff down that a lot of people miss their first time out... it just needs some more refinement. One thing to remember when you do this: You're not making a map, you're making an environment! Keep asking yourself "Does this make sense as an environment? Could I maybe see something like this in real life?" Use some reference images of Incan ruins to help!
Bug me if you ever need more feedback.
Here's some feedback I have based on a quick run through of your map.
First off: Set up time is really short. How is red going to be able to get to the point if they don't have the time! Set up time is there to give red a chance to build up a defense that blu has to fight there. If you want to keep the short setup time, you'll need to think of something that will give red the ability to jump ahead the first point quicker so they actually have a chance to defend.
Secondly: You forgot to pack your grass texture! (oh noes!). You'll want to use a program like PakRat or VIDE (I suggest PakRat, ignore all others
) to pack in any custom textures, models, particles, etc, you use in your maps.The map in the beginning is a little open, and a little flat. Open is usually okay, but open and flat isn't. I think I see what type of opening yard you're trying to create and I think looking at Badwaters opening yard is the way to go. You'll see that it has some interesting gameplay elements to fight on/around and is curved up (then down) so that you don't get crazy sightlines. (You have some crazy sightlines which you'll want to smoosh).
Some of your rooms are really dark. You'll want to add some basic lighting to those rooms, people need to see who's on what team so they aren't blindly firing at random people!
After the first point, you have some very narrow routes to the next point. Your route seperation is okay, but you could really use some more width to them, so demo's, soldier, pyros and heavy's dominate. the general rule of thumb I like to follow is that you want to have room for 3 players to move by each other without touching. (generally, 128 wide hallways are okay). This is just the general roll, you can have narrow hallways in TF2, but you need to be careful how you place them. This is one of those times where I think it should be wider.
Same thing goes for this route, but it needs cover! It'd be a cool route for the attackers to use, but with its narrowness and lack of cover, they're sitting ducks on a cliff!
I love this area here, I think the geometry and setting you've put together is awesome, but I feel like it could use a little more pizzaz. It needs something to make it exciting. Right now, it's flat and a little too open. Maybe another building to give people even more height advantage? Or maybe just a small platform to give some height variance. You want your players to have to look around for the enemy, not just turn and keep their crosshair on the same level.
Finally, I love the huge downhill you have for final. I think it's really interesting and I would love to see how you develop it further. My concern is that it's a REALLY big down hill that doesn't have a lot of cover. This works both ways. Red can easily hit attackers and blu have a massive advantage over red since they have the high ground. Maybe reduce the height of the hill (bring the point and spawn up) and give it some nice cover?
Also, your final point could use a little more interesting geo. Right now it's 2 spawn doors overlooking a flat yard with a point raized up in the middle. Give it some fun! some Pizzaz!
Overall, I love where you're going with this. It's got a lot of the basic design theory stuff down that a lot of people miss their first time out... it just needs some more refinement. One thing to remember when you do this: You're not making a map, you're making an environment! Keep asking yourself "Does this make sense as an environment? Could I maybe see something like this in real life?" Use some reference images of Incan ruins to help!
Bug me if you ever need more feedback.
(When he says Vis segmentation, I believe he's saying you want to design your map in 'sections' and each section can be easily and visibily seperated from the next area. If you look at a decompiled barnblitz, you'll see this.)
- Jul 28, 2014
- 3
- 0
Thanks for the suggestions guys! The map definitely has a long way to go. Just updated the log with my changes, but the jist of it is I made the map actually somewhat playable along with some performance updates.
However optimization / vis segmentation is definitely one of the things I understand least about map-making atm. I added a few area portals but hide blocks and the like are beyond me. Does anyone have a good tutorial on how to optimize outside areas like this? Most of the tutorials I find regarding stuff like hide blocks are done in hallways or other enclosed areas and I don't understand what they're doing in maps like Upward.
However optimization / vis segmentation is definitely one of the things I understand least about map-making atm. I added a few area portals but hide blocks and the like are beyond me. Does anyone have a good tutorial on how to optimize outside areas like this? Most of the tutorials I find regarding stuff like hide blocks are done in hallways or other enclosed areas and I don't understand what they're doing in maps like Upward.
NuclearRadio
L1: Registered
- Dec 7, 2013
- 34
- 13
Looks promising! can't wait to see the Beta.