- Apr 12, 2008
- 792
- 286
First post updated, a7 has been released.
Hopefully not too many more of these
Hopefully not too many more of these
Ghost Town
- Thread starter TheDarkerSideofYourShadow
- Start date
- Apr 19, 2009
- 4,460
- 1,722
Sweet, this going to be in the next gameday?
- Apr 12, 2008
- 792
- 286
So long as it doesn't fill up within about 2 hours like it seemed to last week
This played quite well. The buildings are quite well designed, from an aesthetic viewpoint, even despite the obvious dev textures on everything. It's a very, VERY long stage, though; might be best if you divided it into multiple rounds, like Goldrush (although it'd probably work fine as-is, regardless).
There was a few corridors that were literally pitch black, though; around RED's second spawn, it's a little bit off to the right when you're looking straight ahead. Kind of hard to explain without pictures (and alas, I didn't take any)... just run out and take a quick look around, you'll probably find it.
Also, the river immediately outside BLU's spawn; if you jump in, and look to the right (assuming you were facing away from BLU's spawn), you can see a large black void - apparently this is where the waterfall is for the river you fell into. It looks fine from above water, but when you're underwater, it's pretty ugly. I'll leave it to you how to best deal with that.
There was a few corridors that were literally pitch black, though; around RED's second spawn, it's a little bit off to the right when you're looking straight ahead. Kind of hard to explain without pictures (and alas, I didn't take any)... just run out and take a quick look around, you'll probably find it.
Also, the river immediately outside BLU's spawn; if you jump in, and look to the right (assuming you were facing away from BLU's spawn), you can see a large black void - apparently this is where the waterfall is for the river you fell into. It looks fine from above water, but when you're underwater, it's pretty ugly. I'll leave it to you how to best deal with that.
- Apr 12, 2008
- 792
- 286
Thanks Shadow Hog.
I'm pretty sure I know what you mean about the pitch black path. Its a ramp that goes down to the bottom area, and I had just forgotten to add lights there.
I also know what you mean about the water, and thats just because thats where the water ends and the to-be-done waterfall will begin. I'll have to think of something when I get to the detailing phase.
I'm pretty sure I know what you mean about the pitch black path. Its a ramp that goes down to the bottom area, and I had just forgotten to add lights there.
I also know what you mean about the water, and thats just because thats where the water ends and the to-be-done waterfall will begin. I'll have to think of something when I get to the detailing phase.
I was confused with all the side buildings. I just ran into them not knowing where I was going, but it all seemed to lead 1 way eventually. Also the travel time is quite large if there is no engineers. Maybe have more forward spawns or shorten the track. I think there is way to many turns the cart has to make, which makes the level bigger than it needs to be. One example is when a cart has to go around a rock because of the track is broken. It looks nice and seems plausible, but its just unnecessary. Where the cart drops is a nice touch. If you want to split the map into rounds, that would be the place to do it. Near the end when the cart is going down. Not only is that area tight, but excessively long. Try to shorten the ramps.
I didnt feel one class was too powerful. Some spots are shaky (cant remember the spots), but some classes seemed overpowered there. Which is fine if you were going for that.
I dont think you need so many side buildings. In some spots yes, like where it goes into the tunnels and such. It keeps it nice and dynamic. In the open areas, there are just random buildings in places that I see no purpose in keeping. All the buildings seem to be connected some how. I am not sure if this is a good thing or bad. Good to keep the spam down on the cart. Bad because people get lost and are away from the cart. The building where you can fall off a log in a stream and go up the logs to get out. That building has no purpose for example. You can just have the logs go to the gravel, seems more logical than going into a building.
I thinks thats about it. I can tell you took some time and figuring out how to do the buildings and the layout. It is nice, but needs some tweaking to lessen confusion and travel time. Overall the game play seemed ok, maybe people were just too spread out. I felt the cart sometimes had no one on it because no one was around and not because they were dead. Since its such a big map, needs more health kits and ammo. Needs more signs also, i know its alpha, but having no signs is bad. Since its a payload one could just follow the track, but with all your side buildings it is hard to find your way in there.
Good job
I didnt feel one class was too powerful. Some spots are shaky (cant remember the spots), but some classes seemed overpowered there. Which is fine if you were going for that.
I dont think you need so many side buildings. In some spots yes, like where it goes into the tunnels and such. It keeps it nice and dynamic. In the open areas, there are just random buildings in places that I see no purpose in keeping. All the buildings seem to be connected some how. I am not sure if this is a good thing or bad. Good to keep the spam down on the cart. Bad because people get lost and are away from the cart. The building where you can fall off a log in a stream and go up the logs to get out. That building has no purpose for example. You can just have the logs go to the gravel, seems more logical than going into a building.
I thinks thats about it. I can tell you took some time and figuring out how to do the buildings and the layout. It is nice, but needs some tweaking to lessen confusion and travel time. Overall the game play seemed ok, maybe people were just too spread out. I felt the cart sometimes had no one on it because no one was around and not because they were dead. Since its such a big map, needs more health kits and ammo. Needs more signs also, i know its alpha, but having no signs is bad. Since its a payload one could just follow the track, but with all your side buildings it is hard to find your way in there.
Good job
- Apr 12, 2008
- 792
- 286
a8 has been released. See the first/top post for more information.
I think the new pathway up top of point 1-2 is good. Unfortunately nobody built sentries up there last night so we could use it, but it was nice to get back around cart as it progressed further back by the 'wood overhang tunnel'.
I didn't use the new red path to the roof but did see others going up there, good idea I think.
I think once blu caps the thrid point there should be a foward spawn. Even with the new broken fence it's a very long hike to the last point.
I'm thinking the first building with point one would be a great place for a foward spawn, seems like there is enough room in the lower part of the building that a spawn could be squeezed into.
Not only would it help blu win but it would help keep action a bit higher towards the end of the round. And possibly force offensive engies to work a bit more.
It's also still far enough back that having an engi on blu would be good.
I didn't use the new red path to the roof but did see others going up there, good idea I think.
I think once blu caps the thrid point there should be a foward spawn. Even with the new broken fence it's a very long hike to the last point.
I'm thinking the first building with point one would be a great place for a foward spawn, seems like there is enough room in the lower part of the building that a spawn could be squeezed into.
Not only would it help blu win but it would help keep action a bit higher towards the end of the round. And possibly force offensive engies to work a bit more.
It's also still far enough back that having an engi on blu would be good.
captainAngry
L420: High Member
- Feb 1, 2009
- 434
- 247
I was distracted while I was playing this last night so I don't have a ton of feedback for you. I wil provide more as it comes up.
I really like the path between 1 and 2 that you added for blue to get to the roofs. It will help get past the second point for sure. I don't know if it fucks up the balance yet but it didn't seem to.
I think taking some of the curves out between 2 and the elevator was a good idea. That area always seemed like it was a little too long.
All the changes seem to be great so far. I think teams will be getting further into the map and that matches will be won and lost at the last point, yet it is still possible to stop/delay the blue team at every point.
I really like the path between 1 and 2 that you added for blue to get to the roofs. It will help get past the second point for sure. I don't know if it fucks up the balance yet but it didn't seem to.
I think taking some of the curves out between 2 and the elevator was a good idea. That area always seemed like it was a little too long.
All the changes seem to be great so far. I think teams will be getting further into the map and that matches will be won and lost at the last point, yet it is still possible to stop/delay the blue team at every point.
- Apr 12, 2008
- 792
- 286
I was considering adding forward spawns last night, and where I would add them if I did.
Adding one of the second point would be easy, just put it somewhere in the warehouse building (right next to the point.
Adding one after the third point is captured (which makes a total of 4 spawns, heh) is more difficult, since it needs to be far enough forward to be useful, but not so far that capping the last point becomes too easy. My thoughts as of writing this are to add one to the blu building at the third point, on the left by the waterfall. This would put the exit near the shortcut bridge over the river, and right next to the path to head up stairs.
Of course, adding all these spawns means tweaking elsewhere to make up for things. Respawn wave times would obviously be higher for blu, and a bit lower for red. The max time will need to be capped (currently, you can get something like 15 minutes on the clock if you push hard), maybe around 10 mins. I'm also debating lowing the amount of time added after each point is capped, from 5, to maybe 3:30/4, but also increasing the time to the first point from 5 to 6.
Ty again Original and Cpt. Angry, I'll try and get those changes implemented before this weekend.
Adding one of the second point would be easy, just put it somewhere in the warehouse building (right next to the point.
Adding one after the third point is captured (which makes a total of 4 spawns, heh) is more difficult, since it needs to be far enough forward to be useful, but not so far that capping the last point becomes too easy. My thoughts as of writing this are to add one to the blu building at the third point, on the left by the waterfall. This would put the exit near the shortcut bridge over the river, and right next to the path to head up stairs.
Of course, adding all these spawns means tweaking elsewhere to make up for things. Respawn wave times would obviously be higher for blu, and a bit lower for red. The max time will need to be capped (currently, you can get something like 15 minutes on the clock if you push hard), maybe around 10 mins. I'm also debating lowing the amount of time added after each point is capped, from 5, to maybe 3:30/4, but also increasing the time to the first point from 5 to 6.
Ty again Original and Cpt. Angry, I'll try and get those changes implemented before this weekend.
captainAngry
L420: High Member
- Feb 1, 2009
- 434
- 247
I think it would be best to add one forward spawn after 3. The two obvious places to me thinking back are either at the warehouse near point 2 or at the elevator. It will give blue a good segway into the final push but it wouldn't be so close that you would have to make the 4th point harder to cap. Since the second point is now easier to cap and since you already have paths that speed up the walk from spawn to point 1 when you don't have to push the cart, I don't think you really need a forward spawn after point 2
The walk from spawn to 1, 2, and 3 didn't feel too long. You didn't start feeling like you were walking forever until you got past the third point.
Also, I personally hate when spawn points move right next to the cap area as soon as you cap it in payload. It sets the red team up for failure.
The way I see it go down, which isn't a whole lot of fun, is like this:
The blue team has a huge push with half of their team to cap the point.
More than half of the blue team dies taking out SGs and fighting of demomen, but a few blue manage to stay on the cart and push it. At this time, there are still enough red guys incoming and still alive to kill everyone on the cart or stall blue a little while while people setup on the next point.
Now if there is a blue spawn that is now right next to the capped point, all those blue guys that just died are now immediately on the cart and probably outnumber red. This means that red has a harder time stalling blue and has less time to setup on the next point.
i'm ranting at this point so i'll stop.
The walk from spawn to 1, 2, and 3 didn't feel too long. You didn't start feeling like you were walking forever until you got past the third point.
Also, I personally hate when spawn points move right next to the cap area as soon as you cap it in payload. It sets the red team up for failure.
The way I see it go down, which isn't a whole lot of fun, is like this:
The blue team has a huge push with half of their team to cap the point.
More than half of the blue team dies taking out SGs and fighting of demomen, but a few blue manage to stay on the cart and push it. At this time, there are still enough red guys incoming and still alive to kill everyone on the cart or stall blue a little while while people setup on the next point.
Now if there is a blue spawn that is now right next to the capped point, all those blue guys that just died are now immediately on the cart and probably outnumber red. This means that red has a harder time stalling blue and has less time to setup on the next point.
i'm ranting at this point so i'll stop.
I think captian is right. Just one spot around the second point after blu caps the 3rd. It wont change things too much and it'll help blu. Plus the end will be more exciting, not so spread out.
I really don't care for alot of spawns in any map, but especially payload. It kills any offensive engies. It's already hard enough to keep up teles that are worthwhile. Then if every point moves the spawn foward it's impossible.
I think if you add a spawn at the 2nd point the respawn times could almost stay the same. At most shorten them by half the walk from spawn to second.
(I'm thinking second point is in the first building you have to go through. I could be thinking of cap 1 though.) The tunnel with the chicken wire straight across from blu spawn.
I really don't care for alot of spawns in any map, but especially payload. It kills any offensive engies. It's already hard enough to keep up teles that are worthwhile. Then if every point moves the spawn foward it's impossible.
I think if you add a spawn at the 2nd point the respawn times could almost stay the same. At most shorten them by half the walk from spawn to second.
(I'm thinking second point is in the first building you have to go through. I could be thinking of cap 1 though.) The tunnel with the chicken wire straight across from blu spawn.
- Apr 12, 2008
- 792
- 286
Alright, did a quick paint over of the overview so we can make sure we're all talking about the same thing
Current spawn points are numbered in order, and colored depending on the team that owns them. Both teams shift from their first spawn room to their second when the second point is captured.
Capture points are colored in purple Xs, and numbered.
Light green numbers indicate potential sites for other spawns, with the light pink arrows showing the exits.
I'm thinking of moving a spawn room out of the train station (currently Blu 2) and making it a cave exit at green 3. This would make it harder for Blu to attack the 3rd point, since it is not as close as the current spawn, as well as spawning them behind the cart, and in a safer place than they are now (one time I saw 8 engies build sgs outside of the door). This new spawn would have two exits, a lower one which exits at the height of the track, and an upper one which exits closer to the door that leads into the blue building at the 3rd point.
Green 4 would become active once the third point is captured, there to attack the final point. This would exit into the blue building, where players can go left across the river and either up stairs or the normal way by the track. Moving a spawn to Green 3, and adding 4, means 4 is a significant move up.
Green 2 is just an idea, adding another spawn right when the first point is captured. I don't really want to do this, since as you have said, a ton of spawns in payload is bad, and I don't like it either. However, it is pretty much the only place I could add on there. Hopefully further testing of the new side path will determine if its needed or not.
Current spawn points are numbered in order, and colored depending on the team that owns them. Both teams shift from their first spawn room to their second when the second point is captured.
Capture points are colored in purple Xs, and numbered.
Light green numbers indicate potential sites for other spawns, with the light pink arrows showing the exits.
I'm thinking of moving a spawn room out of the train station (currently Blu 2) and making it a cave exit at green 3. This would make it harder for Blu to attack the 3rd point, since it is not as close as the current spawn, as well as spawning them behind the cart, and in a safer place than they are now (one time I saw 8 engies build sgs outside of the door). This new spawn would have two exits, a lower one which exits at the height of the track, and an upper one which exits closer to the door that leads into the blue building at the 3rd point.
Green 4 would become active once the third point is captured, there to attack the final point. This would exit into the blue building, where players can go left across the river and either up stairs or the normal way by the track. Moving a spawn to Green 3, and adding 4, means 4 is a significant move up.
Green 2 is just an idea, adding another spawn right when the first point is captured. I don't really want to do this, since as you have said, a ton of spawns in payload is bad, and I don't like it either. However, it is pretty much the only place I could add on there. Hopefully further testing of the new side path will determine if its needed or not.
Ten19
L2: Junior Member
- Jun 17, 2009
- 85
- 38
Played this today during testing, and a just one nitpick I encountered.
Between points 3 and 4, I got stuck between the cart and geometry/props in a few areas, where it violently jostled my character. Might want to see if it can be a bit wider (though not too much, as chokeponts are obviously critical).
Otherwise it's definitely got some excellent progress, I look forward to seeing the next versions.
Between points 3 and 4, I got stuck between the cart and geometry/props in a few areas, where it violently jostled my character. Might want to see if it can be a bit wider (though not too much, as chokeponts are obviously critical).
Otherwise it's definitely got some excellent progress, I look forward to seeing the next versions.
Sorry Darker, I guess I had missed the foward blu spawn before. I swear the last time I played blu was ALWAYS spawning at spawn 1. But after capping 3 last night I realized there was a foward spawn. I don't know how I missed it before. Maybe because it is a large map and it takes alot of playtime to get familiar with all of it.
So that pretty much cancels out most of what I said before. Moving the spawn over the the green 3 might help a bit. It was tough coming straight out of foward spawn into enemies. At that time I was trying to set up teleports but ran into someone everytime and never got it done.
I don't think Blu needs more than 2 spawns really. I still stand by the attacking engi/teleport comment.
So that pretty much cancels out most of what I said before. Moving the spawn over the the green 3 might help a bit. It was tough coming straight out of foward spawn into enemies. At that time I was trying to set up teleports but ran into someone everytime and never got it done.
I don't think Blu needs more than 2 spawns really. I still stand by the attacking engi/teleport comment.
- Apr 12, 2008
- 792
- 286
Just an update bump. Its been a while
- Sep 12, 2008
- 1,272
- 1,141
Oh YES! It's still alive!
It's still alive!
- Apr 12, 2008
- 792
- 286
Yar, but its moving at a...well, I was going to snail's pace, but that might insult the snail. 14 hour work days ftl.
- Apr 19, 2009
- 4,460
- 1,722
Please please please make this a 3 stage (2,2,2-4) or at least a 2 stage! (4,4) It would play so much better and I really like this map. :crying:
- Apr 12, 2008
- 792
- 286
You know Political, I was thinking about it tonight, and while I've resisted doing any round based iterations of this map (they just wouldn't work without major revisions, and even then its really, really iffy), I may do it. However, it would be as a different map, allowing for two versions of the map, but like I said vastly diffferent (pl_bodie and pl_ghost_town maybe).