Future of the TF2Jams

LeSwordfish

semi-trained quasi-professional
aa
Aug 8, 2010
4,102
6,597
Whoops, hit Post too soon. I formally give myself permission to doublepost, since i'll be quoting.

I think it's unfortunate that feedback for this jam was done in a private poll format. I'm sure people are talking about the jam in chat, but I think forum public discussion is very important. It's literally why people are talking about it in the showcase thread. I know those threads can get out of hand occasionally, but it would be nice to have some more reassurance from the staff that they are listening. There are some people that are more used to being silenced. It happens every time.

I hadn't considered this - but the form is very very convenient, since it allows much quicker communication from people who might not want to hang around to make a big post. It also lets us ask questions that we'd prefer were answered anonymously (the "did you just do it for the medal" one) and questions that nobody would answer in a forum post but are very useful for us - like time zone, or where they saw the jam.

And again, "some people"! Who? I know of a few specific things that we're behind in doing, but well, of course you're going to stay silenced if you don't speak up.


I kind of agree with you: there is indeed a gulf now between "decent" and "pro standard", and we need to be doing more to support that. However, we can't not support new members: not devoting energy to helping new people as they come in means that they leave sooner, taking their bad experiences with them - tf2m once again is known for elitism, and we lose new incoming talent (I would use Yrrzy as an example here - joined only a year or so ago!).

Another part of the cause is that a large group of our veterans have simply moved on - to get jobs and have less hobby time, or even to get non-compete clauses that ban them from things like this. Loads of the people who were really really good at crossing the decent>pro gulf are no longer here: and many of those who remain are content to socially hang out in chat and make things themselves, rather than providing assistance to others: the end result is that lots of people are trying to pull themselves up through that gulf together, and of course not doing an optimal job at it.

You're right that this isn't really relevant to the jam, though. Our very next contest - seriously, should be out in two weeks or so - is of a level of difficulty targetted to that veteran group, and i'm hoping to give them more opportunities to show off later.
 
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Jethro

MUSty Complainer
Nov 2, 2009
287
281
I agree that the quality has always been here and there, but we do have an influx of new mapper, I think it's safe to say the average is going down. I can say for certain that the quality of maps in imps is not what it used to be.

and honestly it makes me afraid sometimes. We have mappers who want to push the game forward but it often feels like tf2m is of little to no support for that. In my experience, testing time has gotten more sparse and it makes it harder to get quality content out. tf2m is good at pointing you toward making a tolerable map but beyond that, it really has to come out of your own. While we need people to take care of new members, mapping is hard and I can't shake the feeling that a lot of our newcomers won't be able to make a meaningful contribution before the game dies off (if and when it finally does so I can move on with my life).

Game isn't going to "die out" short of Valve literally pulling the plug on both Valve servers and the item backend. It survived the thing that was, according to most people, most definitely going to kill it (Overwatch). I can see the game surviving for atleast another four-six years.
 
Jul 6, 2015
1,425
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You're right that this isn't really relevant to the jam, though. Our very next contest - seriously, should be out in two weeks or so - is of a level of difficulty targetted to that veteran group, and i'm hoping to give them more opportunities to show off later.

Yay something to get my blood boiling again! (in a good way)

I think I mistitled this thread though... the VS thing shouldnt exist...

Could an admin change the title to something more relevant to the discussion thats going on?
 

tomGER

L2: Junior Member
Jul 22, 2016
81
43
Yay something to get my blood boiling again! (in a good way)

I think I mistitled this thread though... the VS thing shouldnt exist...

Could an admin change the title to something more relevant to the discussion thats going on?
How about ":salty:" or "everyone hates everything at any time"
 

tomGER

L2: Junior Member
Jul 22, 2016
81
43
This thread is actually being used for legitament discussion about TF2Maps.net and the community, not only concerning the jam and the 72hr contest (rip), but future contests and the community involvement.
I want too say something to the tf2jam and tf2 contest: I as a guy who never used tf2maps.net before wouldn't be here if the tf2jam was the tf2 contest. I would rather watch Crash or GrizzlyBerry making a map and not feeling a bit scared to send something for the contest. The Jam showed me that people can create something in a non competitive environment just to have fun and be nice to each other. The Jam showed me this awesome community of people loving making stuff for tf2. The Jam showed me that everything can be great and everyone can do great. The Jam showed me that the tf2 community is able to do anything from map´s to sfm´s. And for most, the tf2jam was fun. I wouldn't have created something if I had no fun and in a contest it's a contest and a contest is no fun.