Bumping for gameday feedback! I have to go, but I'll summarize my thoughts on what I saw in a bit.
frost
- Thread starter ScorpioUprising
- Start date
I really like this map. It's fun to play on, and the detailing is really looking gorgeous - the new duct-detailing and the train outside one window were standouts for me. Minor problems which I noted in-game:
There's a gap in the wall near the red bridge, their second CP. The blue one doesn't have this problem.
Also - apparently I didn't get a screenshot of this? - but there's a light floating upside-down in midair, next to the red rocket. It's easy to overlook, but pretty odd once noticed.
Anyway, great map, A++, would play again!
There's a gap in the wall near the red bridge, their second CP. The blue one doesn't have this problem.
Also - apparently I didn't get a screenshot of this? - but there's a light floating upside-down in midair, next to the red rocket. It's easy to overlook, but pretty odd once noticed.
Anyway, great map, A++, would play again!
Uriak
L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
- Apr 27, 2008
- 543
- 70
I've let my people run amok on your map, 12v12 style. Alas they weren't so entousiastic about it.
The main things were :
Visually a bit messy : the mix of snow, spytech did'nt seem to work so well, even if the map is greatly detailed on itseld
They felt a bit lost navigating on this map. I didn't myself, but the flow is less instinctive than stock 5 cp maps.
From my viewpoint I would point out that mandatory jumps and in some occasion quite cramped space weren't so confortable. But since I know it's not realistic to give a good gameplay evaluation on 2 rounds, I'll have it retested sooner or later, and provide you with demos of what happened.
The main things were :
Visually a bit messy : the mix of snow, spytech did'nt seem to work so well, even if the map is greatly detailed on itseld
They felt a bit lost navigating on this map. I didn't myself, but the flow is less instinctive than stock 5 cp maps.
From my viewpoint I would point out that mandatory jumps and in some occasion quite cramped space weren't so confortable. But since I know it's not realistic to give a good gameplay evaluation on 2 rounds, I'll have it retested sooner or later, and provide you with demos of what happened.
B2 is out. Made some slight alterations to visuals all around the map, as well as some balance changes due to player feedback.
Changes from B1:
* Altered cap times throughout the map. They should scale better with more people on certain points (3 people on the middle, 2 on the second, 1 on the last).
* Changed the middle point a bit. Got rid of the ugly barricades and altered the layout beneath the point with some new geometry.
* Reworked health packs at middle. Put two mediums in the outlying rooms (to support jumps to middle), and removed the medium at the middle point (to ensure the fight at middle is less decided by stepping onto a health pack). Moved the smalls below to the side. Also, removed some props that were blocking the way, and the ugly handrails.
* Replaced the medium at the ramp with a medium ammo.
* Made metal slats on the roof see through, to help improve visibility between the two areas.
* Added a "ramp" to the roof of second to allow scouts to double jump to the vent room. Also, removed some brushwork to allow someone on the roof to fire down at the point, or to drop down on the point.
* Added a small ammo to the long hall.
* Bunched the health packs at opposite sides of the point. Added some detail work near the health packs above.
* Added some detail to the sides of the last point. Reworked the barrier overlooking the second point. Centered the door and added a medium ammo pack for engies overlooking the point.
Changes from B1:
* Altered cap times throughout the map. They should scale better with more people on certain points (3 people on the middle, 2 on the second, 1 on the last).
* Changed the middle point a bit. Got rid of the ugly barricades and altered the layout beneath the point with some new geometry.
* Reworked health packs at middle. Put two mediums in the outlying rooms (to support jumps to middle), and removed the medium at the middle point (to ensure the fight at middle is less decided by stepping onto a health pack). Moved the smalls below to the side. Also, removed some props that were blocking the way, and the ugly handrails.
* Replaced the medium at the ramp with a medium ammo.
* Made metal slats on the roof see through, to help improve visibility between the two areas.
* Added a "ramp" to the roof of second to allow scouts to double jump to the vent room. Also, removed some brushwork to allow someone on the roof to fire down at the point, or to drop down on the point.
* Added a small ammo to the long hall.
* Bunched the health packs at opposite sides of the point. Added some detail work near the health packs above.
* Added some detail to the sides of the last point. Reworked the barrier overlooking the second point. Centered the door and added a medium ammo pack for engies overlooking the point.
McNuggetFiend
L3: Member
- Jun 22, 2009
- 147
- 51
Holy! Had some more playtest feedback on B2 last night, made some immediate and significant changes to middle, as well some smaller changes throughout.
* Raised the roof at mid. Soldiers were getting stuck on rocket jumps and having a hard time really using that to the full extent. Also, altered the layout of the attic a bit, adding a rather long ramp up from the middle area, and some glass windows in the side, allowing vision of attackers in the attic. Also, removed the small health packs below, adding a medium in the room beneath the point.
* Made the medium healthpack in the right hand room into a small (combo will probably want to use the left hand room from now on).
* Moved second forward spawn to the blocked off door near the computer room. Should give defenders at last a bit more breathing room. Also reduced the spawn advantage for holding the enemies second by 1.
* Removed the gaping hole in the roof at 2nd. Kept the ramp so you can still shoot down on the point to an extent.
* Moved one of the entrances in the lobby (to last) to reduce a rather long sniper sightline. Snipers will have to step out a bit more to get a clean shot.
* Raised the roof at mid. Soldiers were getting stuck on rocket jumps and having a hard time really using that to the full extent. Also, altered the layout of the attic a bit, adding a rather long ramp up from the middle area, and some glass windows in the side, allowing vision of attackers in the attic. Also, removed the small health packs below, adding a medium in the room beneath the point.
* Made the medium healthpack in the right hand room into a small (combo will probably want to use the left hand room from now on).
* Moved second forward spawn to the blocked off door near the computer room. Should give defenders at last a bit more breathing room. Also reduced the spawn advantage for holding the enemies second by 1.
* Removed the gaping hole in the roof at 2nd. Kept the ramp so you can still shoot down on the point to an extent.
* Moved one of the entrances in the lobby (to last) to reduce a rather long sniper sightline. Snipers will have to step out a bit more to get a clean shot.
B4 is uploaded. Lots of pug feedback, and thanks to tyranny for a lot of great suggestions.
Man, pugs are sooooo useful for testing feedback! And so easy to set up too.
Changes from B4:
* Added a great deal of floor space to the middle. Should prevent the lower area from being a complete death trap as it was before, and give scouts some more combat space to work with.
* Removed the glass from the windows up top and removed the ramps to top as well. Extended the platform above, making for a nice rocket jump platform, and made it so you can shoot through the vent prop (it will still block movement and projectiles to the side.
* Moved the mediums at middle to the platform in the left computer room.
* Reworked some of the props at middle to allow for easier soldier spam spots, as well as easier crouch jumps.
* Removed the walls behind the sniper spot at second, primarily for visual reasons, though it will now make that spot a bit more viable for sniper.
* Reworked the ramps up to the roof at second. The ramps are now on the defenders side, with an additional stack of boxes allowing attackers to get to the top from the right side.
* Centered the medium health below the point, and moved the medium ammo to the right side with the small health. Removed the small ammo to the right.
* Removed some of the cover at last, helping the attackers to spam a bit more liberally. Also, added some boxes that will allow scouts to double jump to the top of the rocket.
* Removed the glass from the windows above the second. Nice new sniper position, as well as a way for soldiers to get to the top quickly.
* Extended the point at last. Added a glass barrier for medics to hide from sniper fire, as well as a new doubled set of stairs to get up to the point. The capture zone is much larger now as well.
* Moved second set of forward spawns up a bit, to help avoid confusion.
* Lighting in vents, to help identify teams.
Man, pugs are sooooo useful for testing feedback! And so easy to set up too.
Changes from B4:
* Added a great deal of floor space to the middle. Should prevent the lower area from being a complete death trap as it was before, and give scouts some more combat space to work with.
* Removed the glass from the windows up top and removed the ramps to top as well. Extended the platform above, making for a nice rocket jump platform, and made it so you can shoot through the vent prop (it will still block movement and projectiles to the side.
* Moved the mediums at middle to the platform in the left computer room.
* Reworked some of the props at middle to allow for easier soldier spam spots, as well as easier crouch jumps.
* Removed the walls behind the sniper spot at second, primarily for visual reasons, though it will now make that spot a bit more viable for sniper.
* Reworked the ramps up to the roof at second. The ramps are now on the defenders side, with an additional stack of boxes allowing attackers to get to the top from the right side.
* Centered the medium health below the point, and moved the medium ammo to the right side with the small health. Removed the small ammo to the right.
* Removed some of the cover at last, helping the attackers to spam a bit more liberally. Also, added some boxes that will allow scouts to double jump to the top of the rocket.
* Removed the glass from the windows above the second. Nice new sniper position, as well as a way for soldiers to get to the top quickly.
* Extended the point at last. Added a glass barrier for medics to hide from sniper fire, as well as a new doubled set of stairs to get up to the point. The capture zone is much larger now as well.
* Moved second set of forward spawns up a bit, to help avoid confusion.
* Lighting in vents, to help identify teams.
B5 is out. Thanks to the TF2F pug group for a really helpful playtest! And thanks as well to my regular playtest budsisos.
Changes from B4:
* Turned the platform off of attic sideways, blocking LOS to the point and keeping the fire range to only one entrance. If you want to fire on the point, you need to keep inside the attic.
* Added a stack of boxes so scouts can get to the attic. Requires a couple of double jumps, but you can be concealed for a bit of it.
* Removed handrails from stairs to basement.
* Added a new primary entrance to basement from second. The ramp up from the lower area at second is gone, but the hall now leads directly to the medium underneath the point. Some of the pipes in the hall can be jumped on for scouts to get back up top.
* Made the see through metal on the second point into a regular metal texture. Should help with sticky traps, and general combat surprise from above (though it wasn't really that useful for spotting people above you anyway).
* Added a bunch of props to the lower area at second. Car in snow inspiration from coldfront!
* Clipped significant portions of the map to faciliate smoother movement. Still some areas to clip, I'll be on the lookout for problem areas.
* Raised the circle surrounding the rocket by 32 units or so. I found that combat at last tended to revolve entirely around the point itself, which is fine, but I wanted to give defenders a little more leeway in wandering the area in front of the point. This also breaks up some sentry sight lines from below the stairs, and breaks up sight lines in general, giving sneaky spies a chance to uncloak in certain places. The movement up or down from the circle might be a bit irritating so I'll be looking to perhaps move the displacement up a bit to help people get onto the circle.
* Removed a brush from blue spawn that blocked soldier rocket jumps at the beginning of the round. Forgot to remove the one at red, will remember to do that for the next version.
* Made the spytech beams above the last point non-physical, to aid rocket jumps.
Todo list:
I'm going to be reworking the upper area above the last point, where the windows are right now. I plan to open up the center area, and put the entrances to the upper area in the two adjoining rooms. This will require opening up the storage room overlooking 2nd, and alterations to a great deal of geometry, so I've been putting it off.
Changes from B4:
* Turned the platform off of attic sideways, blocking LOS to the point and keeping the fire range to only one entrance. If you want to fire on the point, you need to keep inside the attic.
* Added a stack of boxes so scouts can get to the attic. Requires a couple of double jumps, but you can be concealed for a bit of it.
* Removed handrails from stairs to basement.
* Added a new primary entrance to basement from second. The ramp up from the lower area at second is gone, but the hall now leads directly to the medium underneath the point. Some of the pipes in the hall can be jumped on for scouts to get back up top.
* Made the see through metal on the second point into a regular metal texture. Should help with sticky traps, and general combat surprise from above (though it wasn't really that useful for spotting people above you anyway).
* Added a bunch of props to the lower area at second. Car in snow inspiration from coldfront!
* Clipped significant portions of the map to faciliate smoother movement. Still some areas to clip, I'll be on the lookout for problem areas.
* Raised the circle surrounding the rocket by 32 units or so. I found that combat at last tended to revolve entirely around the point itself, which is fine, but I wanted to give defenders a little more leeway in wandering the area in front of the point. This also breaks up some sentry sight lines from below the stairs, and breaks up sight lines in general, giving sneaky spies a chance to uncloak in certain places. The movement up or down from the circle might be a bit irritating so I'll be looking to perhaps move the displacement up a bit to help people get onto the circle.
* Removed a brush from blue spawn that blocked soldier rocket jumps at the beginning of the round. Forgot to remove the one at red, will remember to do that for the next version.
* Made the spytech beams above the last point non-physical, to aid rocket jumps.
Todo list:
I'm going to be reworking the upper area above the last point, where the windows are right now. I plan to open up the center area, and put the entrances to the upper area in the two adjoining rooms. This will require opening up the storage room overlooking 2nd, and alterations to a great deal of geometry, so I've been putting it off.
Last edited:
kankle_king
L4: Comfortable Member
- Jan 31, 2009
- 161
- 86
Woop, B6. Lot of quick little changes, and a rather large alteration to the top at last. We'll see how the new overlook works out (bit worried about rocket jumps onto the platform, it seems a bit hard unless you do it just right).
Changes from B5:
* Adjusted the spawn times and cap times of the middle three points. They were significantly lower than both granary and well, so I put them back to roughly that same level (capping middle nets you 3 spawn advantage, capping 2nd nets you 2; both middle and 2nd cap require 1 point longer to capture, hopefully helping with the back capping issue).
* Put a collection of crates downstairs to block up movement around the medium health. The basement is now much more of a one way path with two stair exits, as opposed to a rather circular area it was before. Should stop scouts from running rings around anyone who tries to chase them down there.
* Moved a small ammo further down the hallway near second. Moved the medium ammo at second away from the small health (hopefully, people needing health will grab it instead of it and the ammo). Also, added a small ammo to the snow area in front of second.
* Made the forward spawns at middle a bit larger and put the spawn points facing towards the next cap point. Should alleviate confusion regarding "where do I go next?"
* Replaced the trap door from second with a prop. The prop is a bit higher, so you should be able to slide through onto the second point much easier. Added some open spots on the roof at second, allowing for some (limited) shots to be fired at the point. Watch out that you don't splash damage yourself.
* Changed the layout of the attic area between second and last. Added two hallways leading to the balcony area at last, and moved the open section of that area to the middle instead. Also. opened up the crate room overlooking second, and moved the medium ammo around.
* Removed the middle stairs leading up and out of the last point. Replaced it with a series of boxes and a rather large ledge, for the attackers to get a bit of spam positioning. Might be a bit much, but I wanted the battle at last to be less of a wait and grind.
* Moved some boxes/barrels around at last. Clipped some exploitable spots.
Changes from B5:
* Adjusted the spawn times and cap times of the middle three points. They were significantly lower than both granary and well, so I put them back to roughly that same level (capping middle nets you 3 spawn advantage, capping 2nd nets you 2; both middle and 2nd cap require 1 point longer to capture, hopefully helping with the back capping issue).
* Put a collection of crates downstairs to block up movement around the medium health. The basement is now much more of a one way path with two stair exits, as opposed to a rather circular area it was before. Should stop scouts from running rings around anyone who tries to chase them down there.
* Moved a small ammo further down the hallway near second. Moved the medium ammo at second away from the small health (hopefully, people needing health will grab it instead of it and the ammo). Also, added a small ammo to the snow area in front of second.
* Made the forward spawns at middle a bit larger and put the spawn points facing towards the next cap point. Should alleviate confusion regarding "where do I go next?"
* Replaced the trap door from second with a prop. The prop is a bit higher, so you should be able to slide through onto the second point much easier. Added some open spots on the roof at second, allowing for some (limited) shots to be fired at the point. Watch out that you don't splash damage yourself.
* Changed the layout of the attic area between second and last. Added two hallways leading to the balcony area at last, and moved the open section of that area to the middle instead. Also. opened up the crate room overlooking second, and moved the medium ammo around.
* Removed the middle stairs leading up and out of the last point. Replaced it with a series of boxes and a rather large ledge, for the attackers to get a bit of spam positioning. Might be a bit much, but I wanted the battle at last to be less of a wait and grind.
* Moved some boxes/barrels around at last. Clipped some exploitable spots.
- Sep 28, 2009
- 3,075
- 2,778
As was commented on much during play, the fans look totally solid and it doesn't seem like you should be able to shoot through them. The new ramps on the roofs feels very fluid and the map as a whole flows very well between combat. It does seem as if taking back middle would be a little difficult, because we only did it once and spent a whole round in the process. Again, very good work.