frost

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by ScorpioUprising, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. ScorpioUprising

    aa ScorpioUprising

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    New map! A 5cp push map, geared towards comp play. I'm using my entry from the detailing contest as the final point. Let me know what you guys think!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  2. nik

    nik L12: Fabulous Member

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    hehe the first screenshot looks more detailed than the others...

    I WONDER WHY.. *cough cough*


    no but seriously - I do like it
     
  3. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    Good luck. I hope the rest of the map turns out as awesome as your entry.
     
  4. HellJumper

    aa HellJumper

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    Just playtested, and I think it's a so far so good idea, but the middle point needs some work in terms of too many entrances. I think it is a little too open, and the vents might be unnecessary.

    Keep up the good work so far.
     
  5. WastedMeerkat

    WastedMeerkat L3: Member

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    One look at the front page told me why the last cap looks so finished.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  6. Rikka

    Rikka L5: Dapper Member

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    As has been said, middle is very iffy. The water is useless, as is the upstairs route with the vents. The fight focused too much around spamming the sightlines. The second forward spawn was too close to the 2nd point.

    It needs some stripping down, but you got some good ideas going right now. And last was beautiful, and it didn't play bad either.
     
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  7. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    I'd "compress" the middle three points a bit. This also means thinning the distance between ceilings and the floor above them in order to maintain reasonably-sloped ramps.

    The corridors seem the right kind of width, but near the middle they're on the long end. Height-wise, "three floors up" in this map feels more like "five floors up" compared to what I'm used to.

    The water in the central point is useful if you're on fire, but it doesn't allow you to go anywhere you couldn't have just walked to in a straight line.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  8. FreeLance_FoX

    FreeLance_FoX L6: Sharp Member

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    I felt like all the extra routes at middle were geared towards avoiding the inevitable spam and/or snipers you would encounter if you went into the CP area. While the ideas are quite interesting, vents to drop down on mid or a short underwater route that allows someone to hide temporarily, they felt easier to use for annoyance than for tactical play (thus it felt geared towards larger playercounts and utility classes).

    I liked second a lot and from the screenshots it looked fantastic, but I feel like the vertical distance is just too much for tf2. The rest of it felt fine, I suppose, and I loved the health pack placement and the use of the roof as a crossing route, but the whole think could stand to be shrunken by around 60% vertically. The distance between the ground and the CP felt alright, I guess, but I can't help but feel that the lower route was never useful for attacking 2nd, only as an escape for classes like pyros hoping to reach that health. It's a good trade-off, but especially in pubs where most classes who end up down there will be unable to easily get back up, you may run into issues of it being a "deathpit," with people from two higher areas firing down.

    Last ofcourse is beautiful and I got the feeling that it played well with every class/number of players. The sightlines intentionally favored the offense so I wonder if at high levels it might play poorly in competitive tf2. The point is lower than all of the entrances, unlike Badlands or Granary, and none of the routes put you in a great flanking position, making it a battle between each teams' heavy classes for control of the area and for control of the height advantage (but as I said with I imagine an advantage to the offense, testing is needed to see but maybe the defenders' spawntimes could be lowered to compensate).

    -FoX
     
  9. littleedge

    aa littleedge L1111: Clipping Guru

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    I have not played the map, but from the comments, it sounds like your last points are awesome, and your other points aren't. Why not change it from 5cp to something smaller? Koth, or Arena. Or maybe add a single point and make a cp_gorge map. Or change the detailed last point slightly, and make a ctf map.
     
  10. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    I saw some vents while spectating but never saw them while playing. They looked like you could walk around in them too. Also, near RED's CP 2 on the second floor there is a random player clip.
     
  11. Flame

    aa Flame

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    Dont let last nights testing discourage. Your layout for second and mid is very nice but it needs some work obv.

    Im still very much against the third floor unless you somehow managed to attach the floors without all the rampy side staircases. They might seem nice but from a gameplay standpoint it makes pushing last very very hard.

    Try ditching the third floor as well as the vents area and re-network the connections and im sure you could get a very playable comp-style map. Right now the problem lays in the huge amounts of routes to get everywhere. I thought last played pretty well, the problem capping it came in the lack of coordinated ubers.

    Try a new alpha with no distinct third floor, and keep at max 3-4 entrances into each of the points and I'm sure it will play much much better.

    Also ditching the linearity might not be a bad idea. Mangy suggested turning the point horizontally, but instead of turning the mid point, bring the other points to the sides so it creates more of a lightning bolt shape than a straight line if you know what I mean

    I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
     
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  12. ScorpioUprising

    aa ScorpioUprising

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    Hey guys. Thanks for the feedback. Playtests have been really helpful so far. I don't really have time to respond in detail, but for right now I'm going to stick with the upper area. I've made some pretty drastic changes to some of the geometry elsewhere in the level, so chances are it won't be quite as "three levels" of vertical, but closer to two. We'll see how that goes.

    I should have A3 out by tonight or tomorrow.
     
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  13. ScorpioUprising

    aa ScorpioUprising

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    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_a3.bsp

    Changes from A1 and A2:

    The map has been significantly altered in this version. I've detailed some of the changes below, but I might have left a thing or two out.

    *Significant alterations to middle. Primarily this involved rotating the entire area and then resituating the entrances into the point. This should make it much less of a corridor and much more of an arena. I've also relocated the second forward spawns to below the point. I also moved the entire center area to be in line with the rest of the map, instead of being in a pit below the rest of the map.
    *Fixed a missing brush in the vents above the middle point.
    *Added an additional set of ledges for attackers approaching the second point, as well as two new entrances that facilitate them.
    *Removed the ramps near the exits leading to the roof of the second. Added some ramps that go to the roof of the second as well, simplifying the route to get to the top.
    *Moved many of the rooms surrounding the final point up so that they all exist on roughly the same plane.
     
  14. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    Found some BLU textures in the RED base.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. ScorpioUprising

    aa ScorpioUprising

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    So, I've been working on the beta for frost for a couple of days now. I know it might be a bit early, but the playtests have felt pretty decent so far, so I think the basic groundwork is feeling good. I made a quick preview of the second point for red:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiyRYDJgvBg"]YouTube- cp_frost_a4.wmv[/ame]

    Also some pics:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_a40002.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_a40003.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_a40004.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_a40005.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_a40006.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_a40007.jpg
     
  16. ANova

    ANova L7: Fancy Member

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    looks really good
     
  17. Drexer

    Drexer L2: Junior Member

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    Although I liked this map quite a bit, there are some areas that annoy me.

    The 3rd or 4th floor vents. Although they seem like good side routes and all, they're too detached from the rest of the map. Heck, I stumbled upon them once, and then I could never find them again. On that same note, the upper paths connecting to the roof of cap point 2/4 could use some kind of ramp/noclip smoothing. Even as a Scout it became annoying to jump to them.

    Besides that, it was pretty fun and interesting.

    Joking matter:

    As I asked before while playing, what is the obsession in this map with huge phallic objects once you exit the spawn?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  18. ScorpioUprising

    aa ScorpioUprising

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    I really need one for middle, then the map will be complete!
     
  19. ScorpioUprising

    aa ScorpioUprising

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    Goodness. Finished the first beta of frost. Theres still a lot of detail work to be done (including skybox), but I'm ready to get some gameplay feedback for the fully detailed map.

    Gameplay changes:

    *Changed the layout of the second point a bit. Some additional walls have been added to the point, blocking some rather long sight lines and giving people near or on the point a bit more options in terms of cover.
    *Removed the stairway from the middle to the upper are near the second point. Instead, the vent room up top now directly links the attic of mid and the attic of second. This makes for a really good soldier/demo jump, and allows attackers to get above the point quite easily. Not sure if this is going to be too powerful, or what.
    *Changed the layout of the "alleys" flanking the final point. The stairway up to the attic now directly connects into those rooms, making a hopefully less corridor feel. This is a prime candidate for some additional detail, a window looking out to a cavern or something.
    *Added a health pack to the ramp leading into middle. Gives someone losing the mid fight something to fall back to. Not sure if this is excessive, might remove it.
    *Moved the health packs below the middle point up to the platform surrounding middle.
    *Added a leap through window to the other computer room flanking middle.
    *Moved the first spawns spawn positions back a bit. They are seperated by a wall which I might remove to keep heals on demos and sollies consistent.
    *Added some boxes to the defensive overlook on the second cp, as well as a small ammo. Gives engies some support in that position, though they have to move back to get the ammo. The boxes also help maintain splash damage on anyone in the window.
    *Added a medium ammo below the second point. Removed the small ammos in the attic near the point.

    Whew! Bit of a slog to get this one done. Hope to get some playtests going on soon!#

    I'm going to try and get some in game footage up soon, as well as some gameplay if possible.
     
  20. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    Wow, that was pretty fast for a beta.