CP Edifice RC1

[phi]

Edifice - a map inspired by Gravel Pit (and maybe a bit much so).

This map is a 3cp A/D map, like Gravel Pit, detailed around the Construction Pack.

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This map was played in UGC's 6v6 season 12: http://www.ugcleague.com/maplist_tf26.cfm

 

[GPuzzle]

Comp players will definetively love this one. You might even fix B being much more easy to defend for RED than A.
cp_progravel_rc1 go go go.

 

[phi]

I'll admit, that would be kinda neat. I know Gravel Pit is a love/hate relationship with competitive players and I would probably end up posting threads on more competitive forums later on if I were to take that path.
Right now my main focus is separating this (visual wise and layout wise) decently far away from Gravel Pit while still retaining the good gameplay present in it.
I'm not sure how it would play out in actual gameplay, but from the few rounds I've played with my friends, the A I have created is a bit more defensible than Gravel Pit's A. I can't be too positive about that though so I'll probably get a proper compile in by next gameday, hopefully.

 

[Prestige]

A and B look pretty boring but the evenness between them and whatnot are pretty cool.

 

[Tarry H Sruman]

All of the brushwork support beams textured with ref50 plus the red surfaces plus the harsh lighting looks really, really nice.

Don't detail this please.

 

[phi]

A2 released, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/84556731/cp_edifice_a2.bsp.bz2

with full VVIS and func_detailing.

All of the brushwork support beams textured with ref50 plus the red surfaces plus the harsh lighting looks really, really nice.

Don't detail this please.

I guess I'll take that as a sort-of compliment since it's from the *king* of reflectivity 50%... sounds like I should tone down the lighting a little bit.

 

[phi]

So after the most recent test (which I was not present for, sadly), I feel that the general consensus was that the map worked fine and there was no blaring problems. I feel that there was a lack of feedback (however I'll probably disprove that by watching the demo), that doesn't concern me too much but I'd like to know if anything really bothered anyone. I noticed by looking at the feedback that one round was won by blue and one by red, neither of them steamrolls - which is good.
I'd also like to know if the spire is too defensible or vice versa; and any comments beyond the ones I'll probably see in the demo are welcome.
I'd be willing to guess that most of these questions were answered in the demo, but hey, doesn't hurt to ask here.

Most likely the only changes from a2 -> a3 will be spicing up the map a bit (and correcting any addressed issues), like adding details and more interesting gameplay to A and C, probably making B more smooth etcetera. Hope you all liked the map and I'll probably get it up on the next gameday if possible.

 

[NoodleCollie]

I thought it was good but I'd definitely recommend watching the demo, listening to the voice chat (which was where almost all of the feedback went) and taking a shot every time someone says "Gravelpit".

 

[phi]

All things taken into account, this is a *small* step towards being less like Gravelpit.

Changelist for each point:
Point A- Changed location of point and reworked the architecture around it, adding structure and cover.
Added a small tunnel to the point.
Added a potential engineer spot (aka wall and some ammo)
Changed ammo+health placement
Removed shacks in favor of a much larger building

Point B-
Adjusted point location
Eliminated spammy back route
Added a little more cover
Expanded yard

Point C-
Shortened the spire
Re-thought out routes up to the spire (now there are 2 different routes)
Added little jump platform with health on top so that people can get to the other roof
Shortened fall distances
Added more routes up from under the point
Changed health placement

More changes are still in the works, any suggestions would be nice.

 

[NoodleCollie]

I'm liking the new podium with the small health at C, and that the redundant back passage on B has been gotten rid of.

 

[phi]

A3 Released.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/84556731/cp_edifice_a3.bsp.bz2
Changelog:

Point A- Changed location of point and reworked the architecture around it, adding structure and cover.
Added a small tunnel to the point.
Added a potential engineer spot (aka wall and some ammo)
Changed ammo+health placement
Removed shacks in favor of a much larger building

Point B-
Adjusted point location
Eliminated spammy back route
Added a little more cover
Expanded yard

Point C-
Shortened the spire
Re-thought out routes up to the spire (now there are 2 different routes)
Added little jump platform with health on top so that people can get to the other roof
Shortened fall distances
Added more routes up from under the point
Changed health placement

More changes are still in the works, any suggestions would be nice.

 

[phi]

So I took the main complaint of the most recent gameday and made this as a concept of design -

 

[phi]

so I've been working a bit, mostly on displacements/alpha right now; pretty much set on layout for a4

 

[NoodleCollie]

Already looking a lot less like the dreaded G-word, good work.

 

[phi]

ALPHA 4 RELEASED
Download : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/84556731/cp_edifice_a4.bsp.bz2

Changelog:
Displaced
Alpha channels
Added extra route to C
Minor gameplay/geometry changes to the map

 

[phi]

So during the recent test I got the general implication that the map was well received; most of the glaring issues were fixed in A4 and gameplay at C is finally dynamic.
I'll be addressing the useful points of feedback given to my map here for others to see/future reference.

There's grass in here

That's detail sprites being wonky, will fix for A5.

lovely lighting error in spawn roof

Not entirely sure what you see here, could someone provide me with a screenshot because I don't see this in game?

Your geometry makes me moist

this is the best type of compliment

I'm supposed to be behind the spawnhouse?

Yes, it is on purpose and it doesn't impact the gameplay at all.

is this new? I like it

Nope, it's been there since the first version. I might try to find a way to make it more useful since not many players use it.

point A has a lot of dark spots and i have a hard time making out team colors

Nice observation, I'll add some spotlights above doorways and in important areas in the arenas.

I like the point A. However the time is a bit to [sic] long.

I will not be shortening the cap times for the next version, particularily because it was fairly easy for the attackers to win every time and they don't need any more advantages.

capping A and B feeling [sic] pretty unsafe, no idea what is coming your way until right in your face

Yeah, I agree with you - but, there is no way I'll make them easier to cap. If anything I might make them more defensible.

these ramps look to be a bit too thick.

Not entirely sure what ramps you're pointing out but I can assure you that no ramps are big enough to cause unbalance.

Add a lower route from B to C Make it similar to the route from A to C

I probably won't, for this will give BLU even more of an advantage on C.

getting caught on those constuction [sic] pillars on b is annoying

I'll clip them then. A nice clipping pass is due for A5 anyways.

Sentries are away good at C. Way too good.

No, they aren't. You should have seen A3.

is this possible in real life with this mass overhang :/

Probably not but hey it's TF2 (and it's an alpha)

Is it supposed to be red sign in the blue spawn?

Gravelpit does it (which probably means I should change it heh)

Cap time [at C] could be shorter though

See above.

no

but i thought that it was a good map for furry sprays ???

Make cap area clearer

Yeah sounds about right.

All in all, great feedback provided and I look forward to the next test on A5. I might start detailing soon but I digress; there are still a few issues that need fixing. I'd like to make it a little more defensible, any tips?
Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[Harribo]

capping A and B feeling [sic] pretty unsafe, no idea what is coming your way until right in your face

Yeah, I agree with you - but, there is no way I'll make them easier to cap. If anything I might make them more defensible.

This was my feedback, it's not that I think A+B should be easier to cap, I would just like to see what I'm defending myself from while capping for more than a second before I'm dead, the height advantage makes it hard enough to win those fights but not being able to see where they or who is coming is my issue. If you think about when you cap on Gpit there is a lot of visibillity off of the cap points giving you a couple of seconds to get positioned while Red approach to defend their point

 

[phi]

This was my feedback, it's not that I think A+B should be easier to cap, I would just like to see what I'm defending myself from while capping for more than a second before I'm dead, the height advantage makes it hard enough to win those fights but not being able to see where they or who is coming is my issue. If you think about when you cap on Gpit there is a lot of visibillity off of the cap points giving you a couple of seconds to get positioned while Red approach to defend their point

Hm, I see where you're going - I misinterpreted your original statement.
Visibility is a problem from what you and others said and I'm up for suggestions on how to improve the points.
I might raise A and remove some of the walls surrounding it from the back so it's easier to see defenders; on B I could reposition the point so that it is higher up and easier to see the defenders coming in from above. I'm just throwing out ideas here but most likely I'll end up remodeling the points a bit to fix the problems mentioned.
Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Verno]

I played on this map during the game day and one thing I noticed was I don't think the defenders ever won. Could just be the small team sizes though. Also, I think you should have more entrances into point A & B from the defender side, because the main entrances are so close to the CPs. This makes it easy for the attackers to block the defenders out and also makes attacker sentries too effective. the CP to the left of the attackers also had a really powerful elevated sentry spot for the attackers, might want to make the pathway up to the spot more difficult for a attackers to get to. Also, the the map is quite small, so shorter time limits might be in order. But I've never made a map before, so please feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt.

 

[phi]

Yeah, I'll be attempting to make the map as a whole more defensible in the upcoming A5. I'm not sure if I should add more entrances between the points, as I want to keep the map organized with teams sticking together instead of splitting apart (as much as I can control at least with the gravelpit layout).
I believe you're talking about the octagonal silo-like building on A for the sentry spot (or somewhere around there). I've been thinking of remaking that building because it is useless for defense but extremely useful for offense. You brought up some nice points, I'll definitely think about some of them while making A5.