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KotH Cascade RC1a

Red and Blu fight for control of a hydroelectric generator buried under an artificial hill.

  1. Defcon

    Defcon L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    74
    Positive Ratings:
    67
    • Optimization improvements

    • Removed waterfalls on cliffs around the point
    • Slightly narrowed tunnels inside cliffs

    • Added dropdown from house into right-main hallway

    • Changed low wall on right side so it can no longer be stood on or jumped over

    • Slightly lowered rock arch

    • Added collision to battlements sign above house staircase

    • Added nobuild to crates/barrels on left battlements

    • Removed/adjusted some props to fix unintended sightlines

    • Fixed broken lighting on some props

    • Minor detailing changes

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  2. Jack5

    Jack5 L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    157
    Positive Ratings:
    25
    Thanks for continuing to update Cascade, however the teleporter issue I mentioned in my review of the previous version hasn't been patched. Basically, Cascade is a very prominently played map in the custom gamemode Zombie Survival, but it is so because of an 'exploit' that is possible in the tunnels where by building lots of teleporters on the incline of the tunnel, no person from the enemy team is able to get into the tunnel without meeting their quick demise. I'm suggesting completely preventing teleporters from being built inside these tunnels:
    [​IMG]
    While the above issue may be a subjective experience, the following bug I observed simply while playing the new version of the map for the first time on my LAN. Near the middle control point and above the map, there are some tree props with draw distances too small, disappearing when viewed from a specific doorway on both sides of the map. This should be fairly easy to resolve without any philosophical hassle. Here's the bug as it appears on RED side, but it also happens on BLU side with the tree props on the other edge of the scenery.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Defcon

    Defcon L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    74
    Positive Ratings:
    67
    Sorry about the teleporter "exploit" but i'm not going to nobuild an area to fix balance issues exclusive to a community gamemode that the map was never designed for. I will probably continue to adjust draw distances in future versions but I intentionally made them fairly aggressive since the map has framerate issues for some players.
     
  4. Defcon

    Defcon L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    74
    Positive Ratings:
    67
    • Added one-way tunnel connecting right yard to the point, exiting directly under the opposite upper tunnel

      • Upper and lower tunnel share a floor/ceiling grate that does not block explosive splash damage
    • Lowered right rocks at mid

    • Added transparent fences in front of lowered rocks

    • Added window into lower on the point

    • Adjusted player spawn positions

    • Replaced medium ammo behind rocks at mid with two small packs closer to the point

    • Removed small health from upper left area outside tunnel

    • Made right side small wooden fence opaque

    • Added/removed/adjusted various props

    • Overhauled displacements around mid
    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  5. Jack5

    Jack5 L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    157
    Positive Ratings:
    25
    No need to do anything, b8 fixes the teleporter problem. Thank you!
     
  6. Defcon

    Defcon L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    74
    Positive Ratings:
    67
  7. Defcon

    Defcon L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    74
    Positive Ratings:
    67
    • Removed lower tunnels

    • Flipped position of lower entrance/exit

    • Added stairs from under battlements into house

    • Replaced staircase outside house with ramps

    • Widened area under bridge on left side

    • Moved health/ammo under bridge to the opposite side

    • Reworked right side staircase

    • Adjusted rocks/fences at mid

    • Widened mid

    • Slightly lowered point

    • Reworked detailing in several areas

    • Reworked lighting

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  8. Defcon

    Defcon L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    74
    Positive Ratings:
    67
    • Returned lower entrance/exit to its original position on the right side

    • Lowered highground at mid

    • Added space to right side yard/ramp

    • Changed right side wall so it can be jumped over but not stood on

    • Adjusted clipping on rocks at mid

    • Adjusted clipping on props in connector rooms

    • Adjusted clipping in cave/tunnel

    • Raised height of the cave/tunnel ceiling

    • Increased size of dropdown in house

    • Reworked arrangement of staircases in spawn

    • Fixed players getting stuck in staircases when spawning

    • Added a second resupply locker on right side of spawn

    • Various detailing changes

    • Adjusted lighting

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  9. Defcon

    Defcon L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    74
    Positive Ratings:
    67
    • Fixed audio bug that prevented players from hearing hitsounds, spy decloaks, etc.

    • Improved clipping in several areas

    • Optimization improvements

    • Adjusted position of tunnel

    • Reduced steepness of wooden ramp leading to cliff

    • Increased the height of right side fences and rock on mid

    • Slightly rotated left side rock on mid

    • Adjusted back left rock on mid to make jumping onto the fence more consistent

    • Added an additional staircase to right side spawn exit

    • Various detailing changes

    • Adjusted lighting

    • Significantly reduced map file size

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Defcon

    Defcon L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    74
    Positive Ratings:
    67
  11. savvaisnotagirlolbbq

    savvaisnotagirlolbbq L3: Member

    Messages:
    126
    Positive Ratings:
    113
    This map looks like a huge improvement from b10! I can't wait till it gets tried out in comp leagues.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Zungry (DarkVirus135)

    Zungry (DarkVirus135) L1: Registered

    Messages:
    42
    Positive Ratings:
    51
    This is a very pretty map. You did a fantastic job detailing this thing. That said, I do have a few gameplay gripes after playing it.
    • Sniper is ridiculously powerful. The open field overlooking the objective doesn't contain nearly enough cover to protect from snipers standing on the inner building. It also makes sniper a very linear class, since he only has one other good spot.
    • The tunnel overlooking the point is a bit thin and makes it so everyone has to jump over the teleporter to get up.
    But other than that, it was a blast to play!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Defcon

    Defcon L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    74
    Positive Ratings:
    67
    Hey Zungry, glad you enjoyed the map. Regarding sniper i'd like to point out some things that might become more apparent upon playing the map for more than just a few rounds.

    Lots of people who are inexperienced with the map assume snipers are too powerful, especially when standing on the battlements as you mentioned. While the battlements does overlook the point snipers standing there are isolated from their team making them an easy target for spies. Additionally the relatively short distance between the battlements and point make it very easy for players on the point to spam a sniper standing on batts and force him to rotate to a safer but more limited sightline. Furthermore the under point flank provides a route completely protected from sightlines from which players can approach a sniper and either kill him from the ground, blast jump and kill him, or walk up the stairs below batts to kill him.

    I'd also like to address what you said about sniper being linear to play because of there seemingly being only two viable places to snipe from. I intentionally made it so snipers had a few specific points to snipe from to make it easier for other classes to keep track of what areas expose them to a sightline. One of the issues many competitive players have with viaduct/product is the sheer number of places a sniper can be standing and still have a powerful sightline. That said if you take time to explore the map you'll find there are more than two places a sniper can stand and be effective. For one snipers standing on the forklift on right side are able to see the point from relative safety but are extremely isolated from their team. Another place that most people who play the map competitively agree is actually the best sniper spot on the map is in the tunnel above mid, as it allows you to see deep into enemy territory to shut down pushes before they can reach mid.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
  14. Defcon

    Defcon L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    74
    Positive Ratings:
    67
    • Fixed clipping issue on fences at mid

    • Fixed bug that caused player’s movement to stutter while on the point

    • Removed railing that got in the way of rollouts in middle spawn exit building

    • Adjusted lighting on the point and around mid

    • Minor detailing changes

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  15. TCLG6x6

    TCLG6x6 L1: Registered

    Messages:
    1
    Positive Ratings:
    1
    Sniper to powerfull, make the waterfall only accessable from below the normal sniper spot so he cant just always switch everywhere.

    Would also be interesting to see how the map plays with less or no sniper cover.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Lemmy

    Lemmy L1: Registered

    Messages:
    4
    Positive Ratings:
    2
    Sniper is far too powerful, the waterfall area is far too hard to access for flankers, and the underground area remains useless due to the ease of stopping the exit with a pyro. Connecting underground to waterfall would greatly improve it. The long ranges make it hard to spam down the sniper before he gets a pick, which makes him absurdly strong. The front area is a bit too open allowing even more sniper picks. The rocks are hard to tell where you can hit and where you can't.

    Performance is very bad. The map has potential, definitely, but it needs quite a few tweaks. Preferably in the cover and performance areas.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Defcon

    Defcon L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    74
    Positive Ratings:
    67
    Hi Lemmy, thank you for taking the time to leave feedback and i'm sorry you didn't enjoy the map more. I agree that optimization and collision on the rocks needs work, it's something I will try to improve in future versions.

    Regarding sniper extensive playtesting in NA platinum highlander pugs has consistently shown that snipers are not nearly as powerful as you make them out to be at a high level. To confirm this I went through the match logs of six platinum snipers on each of the three koth maps played this season and averaged their kills and deaths.

    average sniper k/d on Lakeside: 27/15
    average sniper k/d on Product: 39/20
    average sniper k/d on Cascade: 28/20

    As you can see snipers actually performed the worst overall on Cascade out of the three koth maps played this season and performed the best on Product where at least one of the snipers top scored in all but one match. On Cascade there was only one match where one of the snipers managed to top score. I can't speak for the specific matches you've played but the data and my personal experience playing and watching games on the map haven't shown that sniper is an issue.

    Regarding flank routes I don't agree with the idea that a flank is completely useless just because a player on the enemy team is able to guard it. Cascade is similar to Product in that there is only one route that totally bypasses the point. On Product this route is a narrow hallway easily held by a soldier or pyro. Much of the flank play on that map revolves around controlling that route so your flank can use it while preventing the opposing flank from using it. The under point area on Cascade fulfills a similar roll. Flanks can be shut down easily if you dedicate players to guarding it but if left unguarded flanking players and ambushes can quickly become an issue. Minisentries are powerful at denying flanks but they can be easily destroyed by a demoman arcing projectiles over the point or a soldier spamming rockets from the tunnels above the point. The flank is certainly not as powerful on Cascade as it is on maps like Lakeside or Ashville but I believe it is still viable when played correctly.