[CAMP] style map pack for TF2

[l3eeron]

I don't know if any of you fine, outstanding gentlemen have played DoDS... But the custom mapping community was very tight and professional. CAMP stands for "Community Assembled Map Project" They were able to organize two map packs of customs that ended up being officially endorsed by valve. Of course, it helped that member of the CAMP project had some ties with valve. But none-the-less, I think we should be shooting for something similar.

A pack of 4 or 5 customs in final version. Packed, released, and marketed as "Equals to Valve's stock maps" would be a step in the right direction. As it stands there are enough high quality customs to assemble a map pack. The .bsps zip so nice why include a few maps at once?


Anyways, I was thinking about how impressed I was with they way the CAMP team put it all together and presented it, and even marketed it. And DoDS already had one foot in the grave at the time!


What do you guys think about putting together a pack of the best of the best? Complete with an executable install package for ease of distribution and installation...

This whole thought was a tangent from thinking about how to keep our customs server full. I think an "almost official" map pack would be a great start to weening the "strictly-stock-guys" into checking out some customs.

 

[phatal]

A map pack would be a good idea but I wouldn't try to make it for wide distribution. Rather hard to do when most maps are beta or alpha even listed here and would possibly have another update in the near future.

 

[poopster101]

i think its a great idea
we deff have some great maps here of pro quality

 

[Snipergen]

I haven't seen a custom map yet that equals valve quality yet. Some come close though.

 

[R3dRuM]

Vilepickle's are great maps, they're like 95% of valve i think, and thats great, love his maps and think he should get them in the pack.

Shmitz's Maps are awesome aswell, they should be included too. They are played on many severs all the time.

As for mine, hah, what maps? err, cant get past beta stage

 

[drp]

I think a map pack of about 5 or 6 customs would be a good idea. I can think of about 3 or 4 that really stand out.

 

[ryodoan]

I think this ties in nicely with the mapping contest

 

[Koei]

Vilepickle's are great maps, they're like 95% of valve i think, and thats great, love his maps and think he should get them in the pack.

Shmitz's Maps are awesome aswell, they should be included too. They are played on many severs all the time.

As for mine, hah, what maps? err, cant get past beta stage

I disagree. They are good, but not that good. Certainly in terms of detail. cp_redstone might be the first serious candidate if I have to be honest.

It's a nice idea though. But let's give it a couple of weeks. TF2 has only been out a few months and people are still learning.

 

[R3dRuM]

I disagree. They are good, but not that good. Certainly in terms of detail. cp_redstone might be the first serious candidate if I have to be honest.

It's a nice idea though. But let's give it a couple of weeks. TF2 has only been out a few months and people are still learning.

I am sure you can do better there Koei,

Shmitz's and Vile's maps are the best out at the moment, so i would not be complaining, I'm sure there are others, but aren't very well publicly recognized.

 

[l3eeron]

Key functioning word there is final version, and "equals to valve" might be a little stong
It doesn't matter what we call it. We should be the first to attempt a whole pack.


Or, like was already said.... the contest could be a potential source of new material.

 

[Koei]

Yes. They are the best out there. But does that make them good enough to start packing them in a pack straight away? No. That's my point. If you want a mappack that the community will embrace it has to be very good. It's to early to start packing already. Most of the maps here are still in beta or alpha, let those get done first. I suggest we take a look at this _after_ the mapping competition finishes.

(was a response to r3d)

 

[Vander]

I think it's a good idea. Release a new map pack everytime we have 5 or 6 maps of desirable quality.

Heh, maybe I'll finally get in by map pack #9.

 

[Shmitz]

Nobody is suggesting a we throw whatever maps we can find into a map pack right away. However, it's certainly something to start planning, and considering potential candidates. If you're going to be disregarding "the best out there" (whether or not my maps fall into that category) from the very start, we may as well chuck the whole idea in the garbage bin.

I would also argue that Valve maps are not as flawless as everyone makes them out to be. They're just what everyone knows. That, I think, is what a map pack like this would be trying to change.

 

[phatal]

Vilepickle's are great maps, they're like 95% of valve i think, and thats great, love his maps and think he should get them in the pack.

Shmitz's Maps are awesome aswell, they should be included too. They are played on many severs all the time.

As for mine, hah, what maps? err, cant get past beta stage

Aren't Vile's maps included in the fileplanet map pack? They were like the only 2 that I liked in that pack.

 

[l3eeron]

I would also argue that Valve maps are not as flawless as everyone makes them out to be. They're just what everyone knows. That, I think, is what a map pack like this would be trying to change.

Exactly my point... these customs are fun, just seems the general TF2 public doesnt know them. Im thinking if they could attain and install them with a few clicks, it'd help out tremendously.


There's always been this trend, where customs kill the server (doesnt matter if its TF2 or DoDs). Mostly because people dont want to wait to DL, even with fast dl enabled. So my solution to that is to get these guys to dl the maps before they hit the server. But the pack has to be GOOD.

Im involved in lots tf2 communities (not to mention steampowered forums have thousands of people) and would spam the living crap out of it... I know I could make a difference, I just need the product to sell.

 

[Vilepickle]

I personally think if someone makes a pack, it has to be someone who is knowledgeable of many maps, yet don't produce any themselves. A source that is unbiased as possible is needed for something like this. For example, if I made a pack and included some of my maps, that might be seen as jaded and not a true indication of the "best" maps.

This person can then judge on popularity, quality, fun factor, balance, and eventually come up with a list.

Popularity:
While probably the least meaningful of the categories (lol Orange X), it does have a say in deciding whether a map should be in a pack. If a map is significantly low on the list and has been released for some time, that can mean several things:
1. The map is not that good.
2. The map is not known well (this is the case a lot of the time)
3. The map is beta (we won't be using betas anyway)
4. The map is CTF (CTF is generally less popular than CP, at least from what I've observed)

The following link provides insight on the "popularity" of maps:
http://v3.game-monitor.com/topmaps.php?game=tf2

Quality:
This can be seen easily enough by going through the map, even alone. This is the detail, construction, and making sure that stuff "works". Whoever takes on this project would need to do this a lot. And be very thorough.

Balance:
This can only be found by playing said maps many times. The "reviewer" must keep in mind the skill levels of each team, and also the layout of the map.

Fun Factor:
Pretty subjective. Ideally, the person reviewing would be a fairly high skilled player so they know the ins and outs of many classes and can play 1-3 classes very well. If they have fun, you can tell the mapper probably did something right. People who are skilled can usually see when others are less skilled and judge how easy it would be for them to remove themselves from poor situations.

 

[ryodoan]

I personally think if someone makes a pack, it has to be someone who is knowledgeable of many maps, yet don't produce any themselves. A source that is unbiased as possible is needed for something like this. For example, if I made a pack and included some of my maps, that might be seen as jaded and not a true indication of the "best" maps.

This person can then judge on popularity, quality, fun factor, balance, and eventually come up with a list.

Now where are you going to find a person like that on a mapping forum?

 

[Vilepickle]

There are always the people who map but don't release, or the other people interested in maps who visit here.

 

[YM]

Indeed, you'll find people who dont map but are key members of forums like this. For example msleeper on thinkingwithportals.com he runs the site and takes an active intrerest in every custom portal map on the site and yet has made not a single one himself.

 

[MangyCarface]

Awesome idea in general.

Maybe just have submissions and then everyone on the forum who isn't an author of those submissions can vote?