Building the "Ultimate starters guide to mapping" Compilation. Looking for Guides.

[Fruity Snacks]

In that case, I'll come up with a list of what I think the order should be, what should be included, etc. And post it for people to add/modify

 

[Fruity Snacks]

BASICS:
*Interface/Terminology (Like "void")/hotkeys
-Want to mention how to save now.
-mention staying on grid during hotkeys

*Brushes

*Rooms - mention sealing it, explain leaks later

*Textureing (mention face texturing/alignment)

*Basic entities (what are they)
-Spawns/filters (Light?)

*Adding Props (static)
-Making the respawn locker
-HP/Ammo kits
-Light

*Tool brushes (triggers, respawnroom example?)
-Finish respawn room
-skybox texture

*The little things
-changing sky's
-skybox entities
(more?)

*Pre-compiling
-Pointfile (checking for leaks)
>>>Mention leaks
-interlopers checker reference
-alt+p

*Compiling
**FAQ + proper "techniques" (i.e texture only visible faces. Carving, etc)


This is what I have so far just running through the VDC's First map guide, and what i feel is something new mappers should know. (also posted on OP)

 

[LeSwordfish]

some stuff needs to be mentioned to avoid mistakes. Such as "Stay on grid", etc. Dont know where that would go.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Oh, I was going to add a "hotkeys" section, I knew I forgot something.

I think I would mention staying on grid in the that section when talking about the [ and ] keys that adjust grid size.

-goes off to edit that in-

 

[Duke Silas]

some stuff needs to be mentioned to avoid mistakes. Such as "Stay on grid", etc. Dont know where that would go.

I'd have thought at the beginning with the basics. Along with good shortcuts keys to know & basic set-up of hammer (although this is covered by numerous tutorial vids).

Reading through your last post Fr0Z3n, would the guide be creating a basic level as the reader progresses through the document? Would be good, practive what has been learnt so to speak.

Edit: You beat me to the hotkeys bit Fr0Z3n!!!!!

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Reading through your last post Fr0Z3n, would the guide be creating a basic level as the reader progresses through the document? Would be good, practive what has been learnt so to speak.

Edit: You beat me to the hotkeys bit Fr0Z3n!!!!!

Haha ninja'd

Yea, if you have seen Ph4t3s guide, I would do it like that. He makes a basic level as you progress through the guide, well more specifically, he makes the respawn room.

I'm looking at this, trying to figure out the best way to keep this simple. I defiently think that a set of Video's acompanying this, that or a lot of screenshots, would be something very very useful.

 

[Duke Silas]

Include images in the document & possibly a link to a youtube video.
Perhaps referencing Ph4t3s videos instead of creating new ones. No point re-inventing the wheel!

Too many images can make the file size very large though if your not careful.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

I was thinking that, I would assume that I would need Ph4t3s permission, or at least I should tell him this is happening. Though, I'm not a fan of the way he goes about and does things, and some of the things he talks about (like carving). For those, I (or someone else if they want to) would remake them.

For the pictures, I would keep them down to the minimum, but I also don't want it to be like reading a legal document, I want some pictures and some humor.

EDIT: Also, what "more advanced" topics would be best to include for the rest of the guide? (Like, design theory stuff, like height and/or scale... or detailing things for later in the guide**)

**for detailing, i wouldn't want a guide of the art style of tf2, but like how to create nice lightening effects, light_spot, texture alignment and usage, when a place has "too many textures" stuff like that.

 

[ardysqrrl]

just a note, blocking in nodraw is really awkward; I'd teach people to use dev textures (consistent use of the 128x128 wall is a good way to get an intuitive grasp of scale) and then how texture search-and-replace works.

I think "advanced" topics are probably beyond the reasonable scope of this project. A list of "further reading" would be nice though, to give people who have grasped the basics a place to grow; grazr's design tutorials and some nodraw.net articles come to mind.

 

[skinnynerd]

Introducing people to hotkeys and terminology first could discourage some people; ie. "How am I supposed to remember all of this?" Maybe try to introduce terminology as you go through topics, like "We are going to start by making a basic level out of brushes. Brushes are..."

But maybe I'm wrong...

 

[A Boojum Snark]

No, you are right. Hotkeys and vocabulary should be in a glossary unrelated to the main flow, but new terms should be explained the first time, and hotkeys listed in parenthesis every time a tool is mentioned the first time within a "section".

 

[Fruity Snacks]

No, you are right. Hotkeys and vocabulary should be in a glossary unrelated to the main flow, but new terms should be explained the first time, and hotkeys listed in parenthesis every time a tool is mentioned the first time within a "section".

Hmmm, didn't think of what skinny was saying. I'll keep that and what booj said in mind.

 

[Zhan]

As far as detailing goes, you should definitely link to or do something in the style of YM's detailing walkthrough articles on nodraw.net, since they're insightful and easy to understand. They're not a comprehensive guide to detailing in the TF2 style, just a look at useful things to keep in mind while detailing.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Yea, from the looks of it, what will end up happening is I'll basically re-write the "Your first map" tutorial from the VDC, so that its more TF2 based, easy to use, and comprehensive. And then add other things that will help the new mapper be better prepared for the community. I guess my idea of having a big reference library of guides all in one file would be impractical, so I guess a link library will end up working. But re-writing this guide will defiently happen.

 

[red_flame586]

What I don't think that's been mentioned here but is extremely important for new mappers is gameplay. There are resources out there that can teach mappers about everything above, and yes, having it all in a single PDF is really awesome, though people learn how to use hammer and map reasonably quickly. What I see as a major problem in early maps is gameplay.
It's true that all first maps suck, but I think instead of being flamed, it would be much more constructive if people had a starting resource to look at and see "hey, i need varying height", "hey, this map is too linear", "hey, this is a monster long sightline" and see how the gameplay of maps in tf2 works.

What I was thinking is maybe comparing good maps, some of valve's, some from the community, with bad maps from the community (i know a lot of people around here would be happy to submit some of their early flawed maps to the cause), and some of the flaws in Valve's maps. If you want to be politically correct, you could make a fake "bad" map with every single mistake a mapper could make, then how to improve it.

If this wouldn't work in this one instruction book, then maybe a series would be good. e.g. "Ultimate starters guide to mapping", "Ultimate starters guide to layout", "Ultimate starters guide to advanced and rather scary mapping ideas"

since i'm currently supposed to be writing an essay, and are in an all conclusiony mood... In conclusion, many of the mappers we see on here know how to do most of the stuff mentioned above, and despite the fact that we could get more people into mapping, starter mappers who already know hammer would benefit from other slightly more advanced stuff.

 

[LeSwordfish]

One of the ideas that came up during discussion was annotated/commentary maps.

func_door: Just release an annotated version of junction with "Don't do this" signs everywhere.
LeSwordfish: *lightbulb*

So, as a community, we make commentary/annotated versions of valve maps? Commentaries all over the place saying "This is good." "This isnt good" "This is an example of..." "Here you can see this, this and this, because..."

That might be useful for beginner mappers, as giving examples is cool and useful, and showing stuff in-game is better than pictures right?

I suggested Badlands, Badwater, and a bad map. Maybe a ctf map, or possibly something along the lines of Goldrush. "Put a chokepoint like this, and we gut you."

 

[Fruity Snacks]

What I don't think that's been mentioned here but is extremely important for new mappers is gameplay. There are resources out there that can teach mappers about everything above, and yes, having it all in a single PDF is really awesome, though people learn how to use hammer and map reasonably quickly. What I see as a major problem in early maps is gameplay.
It's true that all first maps suck, but I think instead of being flamed, it would be much more constructive if people had a starting resource to look at and see "hey, i need varying height", "hey, this map is too linear", "hey, this is a monster long sightline" and see how the gameplay of maps in tf2 works.

-Snipidy-

If this wouldn't work in this one instruction book, then maybe a series would be good. e.g. "Ultimate starters guide to mapping", "Ultimate starters guide to layout", "Ultimate starters guide to advanced and rather scary mapping ideas"

-sinp

That is a great idea. I didn't think of releasing this as a series, and this is where having someone else (how about you flame!) to help would be great. Someone else could write, or build a framework for that guide, or others.

You do bring up a good point in gameplay though and beginning mappers. I think this too is a great idea, and (if no one comes forward to help with making a layout guide) I'll draft that out after I write up the begginners guide this weekend (hopefully).

One of the ideas that came up during discussion was annotated/commentary maps.

func_door: Just release an annotated version of junction with "Don't do this" signs everywhere.
LeSwordfish: *lightbulb*

So, as a community, we make commentary/annotated versions of valve maps? Commentaries all over the place saying "This is good." "This isnt good" "This is an example of..." "Here you can see this, this and this, because..."

That might be useful for beginner mappers, as giving examples is cool and useful, and showing stuff in-game is better than pictures right?

I suggested Badlands, Badwater, and a bad map. Maybe a ctf map, or possibly something along the lines of Goldrush. "Put a chokepoint like this, and we gut you."

This is also a brilliant idea. I'm not sure how to files or annotation system work when it comes down to this, do we give them the vmf or the .bsp? Either way, this is a great idea that I think should be done also, either as part of the first guide, or the layout guide.


**Would someone be willing to framework out/draft an "Ultimate mappers Layout guide" (like flame) or come up with a list of maps that would be good "Positive things to do" maps and "Negative things to do" Maps?**

 

[skinnynerd]

For the annotated maps, I think what you could do is use the single-player tutorial annotations in a vmf, and then build it to a bsp. You would make the map run like the tutorials.

 

[A Boojum Snark]

The commentary system is entirely outside the BSP and the VMF, if you wanted to go that route. All the entities are contained within the mapname_commentary.txt thus can be easily added onto any map without recompiling.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Alright, not sure what that entails, but it sounds easy. I'll look into it. I'll chat with Geit about it.