Decompiling Maps.

[Freyja]

I've always been more than happy to even upload my vmfs for people when they ask them. I still would like to offer that to the decompiled maps thread instead of the shitty decompiled version for Suijin - but I have to ask, what's the legality on that? I could never figure it from the subscriber agreement.

 

[LeSwordfish]

I would assume that valve bought a license to it, but you still own it - so it's fine.

 

[Werewolf]

Are we not able to talk to Valve themselves about this? Make sure there aren't any loopholes or just to clear up any confusion?

 

[LeSwordfish]

We could, but lets see if we can work it out ourselves before running to mum and dad.

 

[EArkham]

I'm perfectly fine with people decompiling my maps to look around and learn stuff. Don't mind at all.

I just don't want anyone recompiling or stealing from them, or turning them into "pro" versions, or uploading a map I made to the workshop on their account, etc, etc.

As Freyja said, I'm still not clear on if we're allowed to give you the latest vmfs or not. It's probably okay, yeah, but I'd rather err on the side of caution until I hear it from someone at Valve that it's fine.

 

[Werewolf]

It would make thinks a lot easier if there was some built in way of 'locking' maps against being decompiled. If it's unlocked, anyone can open and edit. Locked, and its a no go. Instead we have 3rd party programs that break into maps that themselves have rudimentary locks on them.

 

[Oatmeal]

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Mod_Content_Usage
http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

tl;dr everything is under copyright unless stated otherwise by the author of the creative work. Decompiling the map or mod of someone else is a copyright violation if it happens without his/her prior agreement. Everything provided by the Source SDK is allowed to be modified though.

Read for yourself though, everything I just said is obviously just my interpretation and supplied without liability.

 

[fubarFX]

going to point out that vanguard is open source and I encourage others to do the same https://github.com/maxdup/Vanguard
For me it is a way to document each and every changes made to my map and show transparency in the map's development. EVERYONE wins from the map being open source. you, me and valve.

maybe that's being overly confident but I feel as tho I am the most suited at providing the content I provide. if someone wants to show me how it's done, I'd love to see it. I don't fear anyone turning my content against me. I'd rather have people be able to paint themselves as irrelevant in the grand scheme of tf2 mapping. copying a map is its own punishment, give someone enough rope and they'll hang themselves.

 

[Lain]

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Mod_Content_Usage
http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

tl;dr everything is under copyright unless stated otherwise by the author of the creative work. Decompiling the map or mod of someone else is a copyright violation if it happens without his/her prior agreement. Everything provided by the Source SDK is allowed to be modified though.

Read for yourself though, everything I just said is obviously just my interpretation and supplied without liability.

That's not what copyright violation is. That's something closer to what an EULA would cover, which is what you're mostly reading there.
Lets just say nobody's going to jail for re-creating snake in high school gamedev class.

going to point out that vanguard is open source and I encourage others to do the same https://github.com/maxdup/Vanguard
For me it is a way to document each and every changes made to my map and show transparency in the map's development. EVERYONE wins from the map being open source. you, me and valve.

maybe that's being overly confident but I feel as tho I am the most suited at providing the content I provide. if someone wants to show me how it's done, I'd love to see it. I don't fear anyone turning my content against me. I'd rather have people be able to paint themselves as irrelevant in the grand scheme of tf2 mapping. copying a map is its own punishment, give someone enough rope and they'll hang themselves.

This is an amazing way to do things honestly. I would do it myself if people actually cared for my levels and I wasn't a lazy schmuck.

 

[Oatmeal]

That's not what copyright violation is. That's something closer to what an EULA would cover, which is what you're mostly reading there.

Nah, you have copyright over your maps and modifications in general. The agreement just repeats that you aren't giving up your rights to Valve, it's still yours. Everything that wasn't created by someone else is your intellectual property. Modifying/Distributing it without the permission of all authors is a copyright violation unless you have released it under a creative commons license or something similar.

Assuming US copyright law. The rule of thumb is that every creative work above a certain threshold of originality is protected by copyright. That's the default position.

That's the legal situation. But like you said I highly doubt anyone would bother taking legal action because you decompiled a map or something silly like that.

 

[YM]

@Freyja @EArkham

For anyone who uploaded to the workshop, they still own that map.

Was I unclear?

You remain the owner of the content.

I said it twice in the same post.

YOU STILL OWN YOUR MAPS

Anything else I say will be muddying the water, so I'll just leave it at that bold orange text.

 

[YM]

(what's more is you didn't actually even upload the VMF so the VMF isn't even covered by the workshop agreement at all, you never agreed to any legally binding documents regarding your VMFs)

 

[UKCS-Alias]

In fact you do. You are not allowed to sell your vmf yourself unless valve provides a feature to do so. But since we are talking about a free version this still doesnt help alot at finding out if its allowed.

(and note with certain paid trade maps, they pay for your effort and not the product - which again is allowed)

 

[Oatmeal]

In fact you do. You are not allowed to sell your vmf yourself unless valve provides a feature to do so. But since we are talking about a free version this still doesnt help alot at finding out if its allowed.

(and note with certain paid trade maps, they pay for your effort and not the product - which again is allowed)

The thing is Valve isn't allowed to sell it without your permission either. You can't sell it because you are using other people's intellectual work to create the map. In this case software tools and programs owned by Valve. It's a shared copyright. That's why you are not allowed to sell it on your own, you don't own all of it.

With paid maps it depends on your agreement. You can sell usage rights or you can sell all of your rights to use that map.

 

[EArkham]

Who owns the map isn't the issue. That's always been pretty clear.

I just wanted to be sure that releasing a vmf wouldn't damage any working relationship a mapper had with Valve. Sometimes, things are legal and/or allowed in working environments, but there's an unspoken rule against doing something. That's all I was paranoid about, having experienced that sort of thing myself in the past.

However Dave was kind enough to answer specifically just a few moments ago::

 

[YM]

In conclusion:

Anything before Gun Mettle -> Valve's and free for all
Anything in and after Gun Mettle -> Not Valve's and not free for decompiling without permission

With the corollary: You're allowed to give permission for usage of content you own

 

[UKCS-Alias]

The thing is Valve isn't allowed to sell it without your permission either. You can't sell it because you are using other people's intellectual work to create the map.

This varies per country, the USA has its own restrictions, but individual countries also do. And this can go quite far on what they are allowed, and what they cant do. In some cases because valve doesnt own your bsp and vmf you are allowed to spread them. For example in the netherlands valve only takes rights on selling your content, but never becomes the owner of the bsp entirely, even when they alter it (they become the owner of those changes however - and there is a point where the changes go that far that the original is somewhat non existing anymore at which point its considered a new product). This is why asking valve is the best thing to do on this and take the safe side yourself of just asking valve (as earkham did). Your own country rules might not match valve's and that might result in problems.

Anyway, earkham answered the main question of the thread, and im happy about the result.

 

[Fantaboi]

On a similar tangent, could a megathread be started up for people who want to post their own VMF's for others to see of less popular maps (that didn't get in game)?

 

[LeSwordfish]

That's a very neat idea! Perhaps there's a better way to do it (a dropbox?) but I like that.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

There's the orphaned maps repo or their maps own threads.