ARENA redwood_a3

[DA_DuckDiarrhea]

Here it is! Arena_redwood_a3 if finally out. For you people that know about this map, you know what happened with the a2 map (and don't mention it at all here or else). But this time, I tried harder when making improvements with my map. Tell me what you think about this map when testing it and tell anything that I should do to improve it. Well, have fun with it.

 

[Bereth]

The map looks so dark. Especially that third screenshot. It also seems overscaled (again the third screenshot). The building with all the windows in the second/fifth screenshot is unusual as well.

 

[Freyja]

You don't need to make a new thread each time a new version is released. Just update the old one.

 

[DA_DuckDiarrhea]

The map looks so dark. Especially that third screenshot. It also seems overscaled (again the third screenshot). The building with all the windows in the second/fifth screenshot is unusual as well.

Actually, the map is a bit brighter when you actually play it (this is why I tell everyone to test it first BEFORE commenting *cough*). Same with the second thing you said. Also, it's night time, what do you expect lol.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Actually, the map is a bit brighter when you actually play it (this is why I tell everyone to test it first BEFORE commenting *cough*). Same with the second thing you said. Also, it's night time, what do you expect lol.

1) you can't expect people to DL every map they want to give feedback to. Screenshots are your first impressions, if they are bad, people won't Download... and will comment on the screenshots.

2) You want to have the map bright. You NEED the brightness for team/color recogonition.

 

[DA_DuckDiarrhea]

You don't need to make a new thread each time a new version is released. Just update the old one.

I actually was planning to do that. But the last version was insulted so much I just had to abandon it. I mean, what person would go to an updated thread and then see insults? Their first thoughts are to think to think it sucks as well and not download it.

 

[DA_DuckDiarrhea]

1) you can't expect people to DL every map they want to give feedback to. Screenshots are your first impressions, if they are bad, people won't Download... and will comment on the screenshots.

2) You want to have the map bright. You NEED the brightness for team/color recogonition.

1. Well, I thought the pictures that I took were good. But you are kinda right about the whole first impression thing.

2. Good point (though I still think it's brighter when you play it).

 

[Deodorant]

Wow, I can be the one that gives the stock night-lighting-advice in this thread? cool, here we go:

'If you study the official night maps, you'll notice that all playable areas are actually well lit. The maps create the impression of darkness by making the non-playable areas dark. Using darker textures for walls and such than for ground and floors also helps establish a shadowy atmosphere.'

 

[Jeremy]

It really reminds me of an arena map I made a loooong time ago.

Anyway, by the looks of it it looks kinda open, and the third screenshot is dark as hell.

I actually was planning to do that. But the last version was insulted so much I just had to abandon it. I mean, what person would go to an updated thread and then see insults? Their first thoughts are to think to think it sucks as well and not download it.

They probably looked like insults, but the comments were there to give you advice and help you get better at mapping. Everyone agreed that the last map was very, very open, but saying a map will not play well is different from actually saying just "this map sucks" (which, granted, some people did, but not meant as actual insults).

Also, some people here do tend to be a bit harsh; but don't let that get you down. It just might take a while to get used to criticism (it certainly did for me!).

 

[Tarry H Sruman]

I still think that you're taking the wrong approach to designing a layout. TF2 maps are a lot less "organic" (this is an awful adjective, but I can't think of another term to describe it) than a map for say, Battlefield. Whereas a Battlefield map may be a large, open space with areas of interest scattered around, a TF2 map generally consists of a few well-defined areas connected by well-defined routes. The large, open area approach does not work in TF2 because there isn't a viable way for most classes to engage each other at long distances, so snipers dominate and pyros are next to useless. Look at every official TF2 map, you'll find that while long sightlines do exist in certain key areas, the maps are predominantly short/medium range. You aren't going to make a successful map unless you approach the layout design properly.

Also, learn to take constructive criticism. If your map has an overwhelmingly negative reception, it's because it's a bad map. Don't take it as a personal attack; work at it and you will get better.

 

[Ælement]

First of, welcome to TF2maps

Next of, it seems to me as you are experimenting. Which is a good thing. But to make something that will eventually become a successful project, you need to change the way you go about the map design.

Just as Sruman said, TF2 needs well thought out areas connected by well thought out routes. The way to achieve these is NOT (which I expect is what you've done) to make a big flat box and add stuff onto it. A lot of us have done just that. Now accept the gift of our experiences when we tell you that this will not work.

Plan your map, then build it one area at a time. If its hard to get started, start by making the spawn rooms or something like that... The important thing is that you have something to expand from

 

[DA_DuckDiarrhea]

First of, welcome to TF2maps

Next of, it seems to me as you are experimenting. Which is a good thing. But to make something that will eventually become a successful project, you need to change the way you go about the map design.

Just as Sruman said, TF2 needs well thought out areas connected by well thought out routes. The way to achieve these is NOT (which I expect is what you've done) to make a big flat box and add stuff onto it. A lot of us have done just that. Now accept the gift of our experiences when we tell you that this will not work.

Plan your map, then build it one area at a time. If its hard to get started, start by making the spawn rooms or something like that... The important thing is that you have something to expand from

Oh thanks for the tips. But just something that I need to say. I do understand about the whole thought out connected areas, but whenever I look at other arena maps like watchtower or lumberyard, they have concepts that are the same as my arena map: they have a big building at the center and pretty open areas around the sides.

 

[Deodorant]

Oh thanks for the tips. But just something that I need to say. I do understand about the whole thought out connected areas, but whenever I look at other arena maps like watchtower or lumberyard, they have concepts that are the same as my arena map: they have a big building at the center and pretty open areas around the sides.

Lumberyard is definitely a series of connected areas. The outdoor part is pretty much just two wide corridors and two rectangles, connected to form a ring around the main building.
Watchtower is.. Yeah, that's pretty much a large open space with a room in the middle. I don't really know what to say about that. I think watchtower is a pretty boring map.

 

[LeSwordfish]

Even looking at watchtower though, it isnt one big open area. There is masses of cover around the ramps down, meaning that the outer ring might as well be an entirely seperate building. The inner ring has only a few entrances- the arches, dropping down from above, etc. And it's not so big. The upper areas are large and open, yes, but they have the risk of being extremely visible, having a long fall below them, and having limited mobility. You can't dodge much on them.

And yeah, it's kinda big and open. But look at other arena maps.

• Lumberyard: It's one medium building with open areas around them. The open areas are broken up with large cover, and have multiple routes around them and ways to flank them
• Ravine: A building that almost completely cuts sightlines, plus two open-ish areas. Both open areas include hight advantages over them, and the main routes to the point are tight interior buildings.
• Sawmill: Multiple open areas broken up almost completely by buildings and walls. Main building has lots of routes into it, and a height advantage over the entire place.
• Offblast: Very few open areas. Paths around the outside and up through the base are small-ish and most combat takes place in high, narrow corridors. My personal favourite arena map.
• Granary: Yeah, a bit. But it's broken up with the crates meaning that only some areas are very big at all.
• Badlands: lots and lots of cover. Largest open area is in a height disadvantage from the point, and vry easy to avoid. Small buildings block sightlines.
• Well: One big building. Many routes in and out.

 

[DA_DuckDiarrhea]

Even looking at watchtower though, it isnt one big open area. There is masses of cover around the ramps down, meaning that the outer ring might as well be an entirely seperate building. The inner ring has only a few entrances- the arches, dropping down from above, etc. And it's not so big. The upper areas are large and open, yes, but they have the risk of being extremely visible, having a long fall below them, and having limited mobility. You can't dodge much on them.

And yeah, it's kinda big and open. But look at other arena maps.

• Lumberyard: It's one medium building with open areas around them. The open areas are broken up with large cover, and have multiple routes around them and ways to flank them
• Ravine: A building that almost completely cuts sightlines, plus two open-ish areas. Both open areas include hight advantages over them, and the main routes to the point are tight interior buildings.
• Sawmill: Multiple open areas broken up almost completely by buildings and walls. Main building has lots of routes into it, and a height advantage over the entire place.
• Offblast: Very few open areas. Paths around the outside and up through the base are small-ish and most combat takes place in high, narrow corridors. My personal favourite arena map.
• Granary: Yeah, a bit. But it's broken up with the crates meaning that only some areas are very big at all.
• Badlands: lots and lots of cover. Largest open area is in a height disadvantage from the point, and vry easy to avoid. Small buildings block sightlines.
• Well: One big building. Many routes in and out.

(rubs eyes and slaps myself in the face) I think I better start thinking on some ideas now. But what should be done to make well connected area? Well, guess I'll just sit in my chair and, just start thinking about what to do to make well connected areas till something comes.

 

[Deodorant]

(rubs eyes and slaps myself in the face) I think I better start thinking on some ideas now. But what should be done to make well connected area? Well, guess I'll just sit in my chair and, just start thinking about what to do to make well connected areas till something comes.

Play a few rounds on your favorite maps and study the layouts of the most enjoyable areas in them. Then fetch a pen, paper and eraser and start brainstorming away.

 

[LeSwordfish]

Also, play a few rounds on bad maps. What's annoying about playing on them?

 

[DA_DuckDiarrhea]

Well, After a lot of thinking, planning, and other stuff, I've decided NOT to continue arena_redwood. I realized it was a very messy and uneven map (though its VERY hard to tell, but it is true). Instead, my time of planning is going to a new payload map instead. So yeah, people who dislike my map, you got your wish.