Morras Castle

[Codename22]

Yes it is really really big, I also found a couple of clipping issues.
I will post screens later...

 

[Loc_n_lol]

As an alternative to TC conversion, make it a dustbowl-like : 3 stages of 2 CPs tha t must be captured in order.
Generally, splitting the players between several objectives seems like a bad idea, especially if there is some distance between the objectives.
No matter what you decide, you absolutely, positively must make it clear at all times which way the players need to go, and actively prevent them from going where they're not supposed to go.

 

[Sergis]

so it looks like i made a little mistake with the map size
i think i'll just downscale it (even if it takes a while)

- It is wayyyy too big and overscaled for Team Fortress 2
- Blu respawn time is too long

+Theme is cool though.

i'll try to make respawn time 15 seconds maximum

Convert this to TC; it's way, way, WAY too big. I spent 9 tenths of the time just wandering around and hoping I'd find my way. The point naming scheme was confusing, and there need to be more signs.

On a better note the map looks gorgeous.

my paths between points aren't that interesting to have the most fighting happen there if i convert to TC. especially between A and B and A and C i'm afraid that it would play as chokepointish as hydro
and if i make the paths wider, my optimization wont like it

hell, I got lost while spectating

then when I zoomed out to see the whole map I couldn't because I had to go so far out that fog obscured everything

also if you're not going to convert it to TC at least make it so that when it changes to stage 2 you can't enter the stage 1 areas. Do the dustbowl/goldrush thing where chainlink fences appear to block you off. oftentimes I'd wander back into the first stage with no clue that I was meant to assault the castle.

In general cull the unecessary sidepaths and courtyards inside the castle, and add more signs.

i'll do the chainlink fence thing. only wth some props that fit the map more

i think unnecessary paths seemed unnecessary because of the size of the map and because most players were lost. no need for flank routes when there's 1 guy defending the point

too big. push in some of the walls. and its confusing in beginning with the backwards hud thing

pushing in walls wouldnt change the distance between points tho. resizing is the way to go

what backwards hud? capture point icons? they aren't backwards. point that capture first are below the other ones

Yes it is really really big, I also found a couple of clipping issues.
I will post screens later...

since my resizing will include making the base of map in a new file and copypasteadjusting stuff, current clipping issues dont really matter anymore. i'll make new ones
although please post screens anyway so i dont repeat my mistakes

As an alternative to TC conversion, make it a dustbowl-like : 3 stages of 2 CPs tha t must be captured in order.
Generally, splitting the players between several objectives seems like a bad idea, especially if there is some distance between the objectives.
No matter what you decide, you absolutely, positively must make it clear at all times which way the players need to go, and actively prevent them from going where they're not supposed to go.

i want to keep the layout as it is - two gravelpits in one map. i like the current stages - first outside castle, then inside. with 3 stages, im not sure how to group CPs
i will make more signs and stage specific barriers.

 

[Sergis]

bump for a12

 

[Sergis]

post-playtest bump

 

[Confidence Man]

Was the gameday version the scaled-down one?

 

[Sergis]

Was the gameday version the scaled-down one?

yes

 

[StickZer0]

Played this yesterday at gameday, I had so much fun on it, everyone was changing their names to things such as "Sir Mighty Honor the Honorable" etc

It terms of fun: we had a real blast, everyone seemed to be enjoying it loads.

In terms of "proper" TF2 gameplay and balancing: It's not the best. I can't remember the point name, but it was one that looked like an arena; it was far too open with little cover and too easy for red to spam across. Similarly with the final cap, blue could very easily hold the outside of the building, which I actually thought was a great mechanic, but only having one entrance to it meant that spam inside the building was a bit mad and a little frustrating when attacking. Also the placement of spawn directly above the point seemed odd.

So yeah, I'd suggest giving a little more cover in the last cap but also add one or two sideroutes going into it to give classes like scout and spy a chance to flank

 

[Ida]

You might have to scale it down even more! Watch out for areas where Snipers can see far.

However, most areas, especially the points themselves, were scaled well. The map is great, I had a blast playing it, if not for the same reasons that I enjoy a regular TF2 map. I appreciate the change. There are a couple of points that are very hard to attack, such as F. It's impossible for BLU to get any decent high ground that even challenges RED at all, so all you can do is to keep going through the door. Not so fun.

One thing I really disliked - It is extremely confusing to find out where you need to go. The signs help a little bit, but there are areas in which there are no relevant signs, and there's not really a natural "flow" to follow. The teleporters didn't help in terms of confusion (Speaking of which, all spawns should have lockers and doors!). I recommend reworking some paths so that players will spawn in the direction they need to go, and closing off irrelevant paths, etc.

Also perhaps worth mentioning, the throne can be broken, so that's a little weird.

Good luck with this, I want to see more of it!

 

[Icarus]

This map was a lot of fun, with plenty of surprises.

Good luck!


PS King Okrag was OP

 

[Sergis]

King Okrag is getting his throne nerfed. I added two little sidepaths into the throneroom, reduced cap time, and also when both D and E are captured, blu will spawn where red spawned during round 1 and red will get an extra second to their spawnwavetime.

Speaking of throne, I think nobody even noticed that its destruction gave extra time to blu The red team was supposed to defend it ,not break it.

I really don't want to scale the map down any more. Breaking some sightlines is ok, but no more total makeovers.

I had forgotten to place some essential signs, like from spawn at C to point E so the shortest way from C to E was almost unused. It should be less confusing when the signs will be placed properly.

Also, the teleporters will look like TF2 teleporters so it's more clear that they're actually teleporters.

I'll also allow engies to build inside castle during round 1. Even though that means indestructible tele entrances, it'll at least make the map little less confusing.

p.s. cows will be shootable.

 

[Sergis]

a13 ready and submitted for gameday

 

[Seba]

this ramp is REALLY annoying to get back up. I suggest removing that part of the fence completely.
Make this nonshoottroughable.
Weird transition here.
Why does this have reflective metal on it?
Bottommost rock here is nonsolid.

Overall, fun map. It's kinda hard to defend though, at all points but the last (throne room). The last cap has a really long cap time, I suggest lowering it and making reaching the point harder. Also, it's pretty much impossible to attack, since RED spawns right above it and can come down on both sides. Another thing I'll recommend is add a map of the stage in both spawns. This will help players reach the points more quickly and not wander around, hoping to stumble upon the enemy/a point.

 

[Confidence Man]

Definitely an improvement over the last version, just in terms of the time it took to navigate to the points.

I don't know if it was just the team balance but we were able to hold A pretty easily with sentries spread around the upper walkways. That little room with full and medium ammo and health made it a little too easy to keep everything built up, methinks.

I second F being too long to cap.

 

[Sergis]

this ramp is REALLY annoying to get back up. I suggest removing that part of the fence completely.

i think i'll just raise the water so the ramps wont be necessary to get out of water

Make this nonshoottroughable.
Weird transition here.

does it looks better like this? i just hadn't rotated the texture

Why does this have reflective metal on it?

because i normally play with mat_specular 0 and low shader detail so what you see as reflectve metal, i see as black concrete i'll remove that texture's specular map

Bottommost rock here is nonsolid.

Overall, fun map. It's kinda hard to defend though, at all points but the last (throne room). The last cap has a really long cap time, I suggest lowering it and making reaching the point harder. Also, it's pretty much impossible to attack, since RED spawns right above it and can come down on both sides. Another thing I'll recommend is add a map of the stage in both spawns. This will help players reach the points more quickly and not wander around, hoping to stumble upon the enemy/a point.

last cap actually has the fastest cap time but i guess i have to make it even faster.
i'll think about the map. although texture making isn't my favorite part of map making.

Definitely an improvement over the last version, just in terms of the time it took to navigate to the points.

i hope it wasn't only because you already know the map
at least one player was saying he's lost while standing under a signpost

I don't know if it was just the team balance but we were able to hold A pretty easily with sentries spread around the upper walkways. That little room with full and medium ammo and health made it a little too easy to keep everything built up, methinks.

i'll make extra path into A near that little room. that should make it less safe.

I second F being too long to cap.

 

[Wilson]

ISSUES

- Way too much useless open space everywhere
- The water on first stage needs more ways out.
- First cp is way too hard to cap, the area needs more routes, also some route to upper floor around the point would be nice.
- The last point caps way too long.
- It needs more sings to point out where the hell are you going, i got lost a lot.

 

[Sergis]

ISSUES

- Way too much useless open space everywhere
- The water on first stage needs more ways out.
- First cp is way too hard to cap, the area needs more routes, also some route to upper floor around the point would be nice.
- The last point caps way too long.
- It needs more sings to point out where the hell are you going, i got lost a lot.

caps b,c,d,and e didnt saw much fighting. probably thats why a lot of space was unused.
i spectated you in first person in demo. when you were supposed to run to A thru C, you got to C point, then ignored two signs to A and said that you have no idea where you're going i guess i have to make paths from C to A more obvious


edit: b1 ready

 

[J4CK8]

A few jagged displacements:

Could do with this being clipped so you dont have to jump to get on it:

The signposts are a little small and it's not good to make players have to stop to read them. Maybe add larger signs as well, such as around here:

Point C is easy to spam from over there:

Cap times seem incredibly long when your on your own, although I guess the same can be said for Gpit. I love the custom models/textures and the theme. Those really high up battlements are quite annoying too, I seem to always want to rocket jump into them, discover there's nothing there and have to jump down again, losing a lot of health. Maybe add a small medkit in them? Or a reason to go there, some of them aren't exactly great for defending a point.

 

[LateLJ]

People are just too confused. I think the main reason is that most of the times they don't know where to go. That is mostly caused by the size of the map, I don't know how you are going to fix it now. But when you have played it couple times you start to know the places but you still get sometimes really lost.

I think I have said this before but I really like the theme and everything. This map just needs that 32 players to play well.

 

[Sergis]

A few jagged displacements:

they wont be jagged for long

Could do with this being clipped so you dont have to jump to get on it:

ok

The signposts are a little small and it's not good to make players have to stop to read them. Maybe add larger signs as well, such as around here:

dammit. i like their size guess i'll have to make a twice bigger variant.
people always just run past the signs near middle castle exit as if the signs weren't there

Point C is easy to spam from over there:

Cap times seem incredibly long when your on your own, although I guess the same can be said for Gpit. I love the custom models/textures and the theme. Those really high up battlements are quite annoying too, I seem to always want to rocket jump into them, discover there's nothing there and have to jump down again, losing a lot of health. Maybe add a small medkit in them? Or a reason to go there, some of them aren't exactly great for defending a point.

i think i'll just move the cp a little more behind the house
all points except last one has the same cap time as gravelpit a/b.
if i add medkit there, i'm afraid that sniping from there would be too easy. i could probably just make them inaccessible, but i really don't want to

People are just too confused. I think the main reason is that most of the times they don't know where to go. That is mostly caused by the size of the map, I don't know how you are going to fix it now. But when you have played it couple times you start to know the places but you still get sometimes really lost.

I think I have said this before but I really like the theme and everything. This map just needs that 32 players to play well.

cap area sizes are more or less gravelpit-ish now after the downscaling. the map is not bigger than the universe anymore i think i just have to learn the art of proper sign placement and make smaller signs either bigger or much more noticeable. people ignore a lot of my signs

last test with 24 players it played quite well imo on caps that weren't just steamrolled through. also on stage 2 some of red players instead of going to defend are always busy breaking the throne so d and e are emptier than they should be.