Hoodoo - likes/dislikes

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by YM, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. Nerdbot

    Nerdbot L7: Fancy Member

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    By the way, this is a bit off topic but it's something that's been bugging me lately that maybe you could answer, Youme:

    Is there any reason all the recent community maps have _final after them now? It's such a silly thing but it bugs me SO MUCH. And I think it's sorta hurt all the recent community maps in a weird way--Fastlane, Turbine, Steel and even Watchtower feel like they've all "integrated" into the game now to most people, but Egypt, Junction and Hoodoo all have some sort of negative aura around them because they're "community maps" and I swear that I think "_final" is the reason.

    People will still complain about Fastlane, Turbine and Steel sometimes, but they complain about them because they just don't like them, not because "they're community maps". When I ask people why they don't like Egypt, Junction or Hoodoo, a lot of the times the answer seems to just be "because they're community maps" and it bugs me a lot. Egypt is great fun now and my only gripes with Hoodoo are all probably going to be fixed because you're actually taking the initiative to ask people what they dislike. I would imagine Junction is getting an update too sometime soon. There's a lot of sloppiness there--the computer console in the BLU spawn room that you can just walk right through, the control point names are all copied right in from Gravel Pit (i.e. Cap C is "The Laser Gun" when no laser gun is in sight!)

    My reasoning for this rift between the old community maps and the new ones just be because people think of these new maps as community maps first and official maps second. I'd guess maybe it's just because people can notice it easier when there's that naggling "_final" on the end of every new community map name telling them "this map isn't official!" This could just be me rewording my tiny pet peeves to make them sound more important, but it's still something worth thinking about.



    EDIT: OH! My problem with Stage 3 on Hoodoo, I just remembered. I think it's a little too short. Gold Rush's last stage has three capture points for BLU to take and I think if you broke the final stage of Hoodoo down into another segment like that, it'd flow a lot better.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2009
  2. Mar

    Mar Banned

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    Hmm, I like it, but I still got some gripes.

    Everyone's covered stage 2 so I won't be redundant, but you need to fix it.

    Stage 1, right when you walk out, it very visual noisy. I actually get a bit distracted during some fights and my eyes get a bit overwhellemed. Maybe that's just me but it doesn't seem to follow valve's idea of having plain areas in the main battlegrounds.

    The rest of stage one, the whole middle ground between the 2 areas is very claustophobic. Make some of the passages wider, and maybe make the buildings a bit lower? The whole area is very narrow and I fell like I'm stuck in an alley way.

    But this is all visual stuff, it plays just fine. There is just a bunch of stuff happening and it kinda bares down on you.
     
  3. ParanoidDrone

    ParanoidDrone L3: Member

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    Haven't played lately, so pardon any inaccuracies.

    I agree that the indoor stretch between 2-1 and the outdoor part of 2-2 is far too advantageous to RED. I haven't had any issues with the side paths being revealing, but I play Spy <_< However, something needs to be done to make the side routes either more obvious or otherwise inviting to BLU, especially when the main path is filled with spam. As it is now, it feels like you lose too much time when going that way.

    Purely aesthetic, but the Hydro sign on stage 3 totally clashes with the rest of the decor and should be replaced with a standard arrow overlay or something.

    Seconding the notion that the multiple shortcuts in stage 3 are confusing and that their non-constant open/closed state does not help matters at all.

    I think I get where you were going on the final point, but last time our team actually made it that far I felt it was far too cramped. If nothing else, making it easier to circumnavigate the pit should help matters. (I remember one time there were 2 Engineers, their Sentries, a Medic, a Heavy, and a Pyro all huddled in one corner. Needless to say taking that point took a while.)
     
  4. umbratile

    aa umbratile bepis

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    Well, I just remembered I've had some troubles with stage 3-1, especially the area right out of the door. It feels so incredibly small and cramped, and it lacks any good freedom of movement. All starting areas usually have some small space where the defenders can gang up and camp AND/OR they're long. This is neither. I know there's an additional stretch around the corner, but this one feels so disconnected, it's an area of its own and thus it should not be as wastful as it is now. I'd love another room a bit higher up in the very first building to the left of the track, or something.

    Sorry for being a bit vague, but I don't have time to think about it or take pictures now. Hopefully I will remember this tomorrow.

    Another thing I find annoying are the small windows that can be found a few places... The first building BLU passes by in stage 2-1, for example. There might be more too. You should resize them so jumping through them will be easier.

    EDIT: Okay, one last thing: Some of your clipping in a few areas is a little excessive, I believe. As in objects that look like you'd bump into them if you walked at them, but somehow you slide past. Again, I'll have to get back to this tomorrow and find some examples.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2009
  5. eerieone

    aa eerieone

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    interesing engineering (engipart comes after the demoman/pyro gameplay)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laBCohQ8Pdg"]YouTube - I NO LET YOU[/ame]
     
  6. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher L1: Registered

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    Hi youme. I think hoodoo is not a bad map.
    But I have some struggles in it. May be it is my bad, but still i wish to tell it.

    http://image.hazardstrip.com/ss/maps/141582.jpg
    in this region, it is very hard to defend the place. Blue can rush from 5 different place. When I am defending in there, i can not focus just one place but eat damage from other places too.
    So my idea is to put some defensive boxes or obstacles to red base. It can help many defenders to fight with blues.
     
  7. Jimbomcb

    Jimbomcb L1: Registered

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    Maybe just make it a dropdown so that demo/soldiers can get up but it also gives the defenders an alternative route to flank them, drawing some defenses away from the balcony
     
  8. Earl

    Earl L6: Sharp Member

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    Oh god, the Katamari music!!

    That was a fun video, but the attacking team was kind of stupid. They should have just ignored that sentry in the corner. The sentry on the roof was brilliant though.
     
  9. Phobos

    Phobos L3: Member

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    I was about to say the same thing. Red was in the beginning two man down and yet most of blue concentrated on those two who posed no real threat for the progress of the cart. But the second sentry... excellent! I gotta try that someday.
     
  10. umbratile

    aa umbratile bepis

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    By all means take that as a "like" and not a "dislike", Youme o.o

    At least from me. There's nothing wrong with Engies doing that; it takes time and luck to even get up there, so spots like that are just excellent imo.
     
  11. An Icy Mouse

    aa An Icy Mouse

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    I don't see how that SG couldn't be countered reasonably easily by a soldier or two being smart. It's a bit of a discredit to that blue team that they spent so long chasing the first SG...
     
  12. Ninjilla

    Ninjilla L7: Fancy Member

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    Yes, stage 3 is so very very cramped. It is rather good for the uber pyros and critting demos and heavys to get kills, but for the spy, It can be quite hard to maneuver around behind RED. I think it would be nice if you added a barrel or box in the right-most window, or a ledge at the window so you can jump from the little rock into it, but at the same time, someone said it shouldnt be a main path.
     
  13. suzzanuzza

    suzzanuzza L1: Registered

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    Ill tell you what i dont like about it. Its the same exact theme and look of every other valve map, just with a different layout. Look at Dustbowl, Gravel Pit, Badlands, Fastlane, Goldrush, Badwater Basin, and Ravine. whats the difference? And then the maps that arent the same are very similar to these. There are a few good maps though, like Well, 2fort, and Pipeline, but i really could use some change. Now the Arena maps are great! I love them but cmon... It's arena. one death and your done? no thanks. I beg you valve, make more cool maps with the spytek theme. And make modern maps in secret facilities and strange buildings! no more hillbilly farms and mines and beastuality! Give us something exciting! or dont.
     
  14. spookymikal

    spookymikal L1: Registered

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    The only thing i don't like about hoodoo is the ending.

    I love the map balance and everything, but after 10-15 minutes of attacking the explosion at the end is meager.

    The whole building should collapse.
     
  15. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    I think hoodoo is excellent, except that the last capture feels way too hard for the offense. You could probably open that last area up a fair amount, the offense only has a couple of attack routes. What I like about goldrush's finale is that even though it's hard, there are a lot of routes for the offense. It keeps both teams working hard, but in hoodoo's finale the red team can kind of sit back and win easily.
     
  16. Tinker

    aa Tinker

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    I really hope you aren't serious.

    Also, I agree with most people here that at times the map feels really cramped, for example, tunnels which are only broad enough to fit one person (making it hard for spies to make their way anywhere). Especially the tunnels, I think, need some work.
     
  17. Psy

    aa Psy I make maps, but not in Korea.

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    I would like everything in this post to be implemented! ;)

    Stage 3, as it stands, is horrid. I think this has already been discussed in-depth but you should allow BLU to access the first building on the right that leads to the second floor.

    One thing I found particularly annoying was the no-go brushes outside stage 2's spawn that makes tele entrances unreachable and unsappable.
     
  18. alecom

    alecom L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Is that if you build a dispenser/sentry on the rock first and then jump?
    I would like that window to be just a bit larger so it's easier to fit through, widening and making taller that's all.


    This! Also maybe make two windows rather than just the one? Not a lot of people notice the windows OR make use of them (dustbowl 2-1 has some, but they are quite hard to make use of since you have to be right in RED's LOS to use them).
    I think two, slightly larger windows would be good.




    What he said.


    I so far havn't had any problems with Stage 3... except that passage with the two gates, and the visualizer thing saying you can't go through it when you CAN.
     
  19. Laggy

    Laggy L2: Junior Member

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    I'll do a run through your map in a few hours see any likes or dislikes then probably play a pub. When I play I focus on people not details :/
     
  20. Buck

    Buck L1: Registered

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    I played it so much on pubs (non instant respawn) and i only played stage 2 like 4 times, and that is because entire map is really choked, id say widen most of the enterances which are problematic and play out a prive beta of it. Hard work but only suggestion off the top of my head i could make.