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Hoodoo - likes/dislikes

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by YM, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    After talking with Robin walker over some issues there are some changes (some quite dramatic) that I'm considering making to Hoodoo. The reason for this is the sheer number of instant respawn servers screwing over the 6 months worth of fine tweaking I did.

    So if there's anything you think might make hoodoo better, post it here, with reasons why you think such a change would be advantageous. Obviously if someone has already said something you were going to then repeat it, the more people that think one thing the more persuasive it becomes.

    I'll start:
    More cowbell
     
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  2. pitto

    pitto L3: Member

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    I think the round two start gates should have the no-go team barrier on them, although I did have fun killing snipers in there as spy :laugh:. I think this would be better as it prevents defense uber pushing, and spawn camping to waste a lot of the attackers time. Also in all valve maps it is standard, so it took me off guard the first time I was defending and the attacking team pushed right in.

    Really the instant spawn servers were not how tf2 was meant to be played, I hate it when my friends decide to play on them, total ruins balance, particularly in A/D or payload. When you knock out a number of the other team, the reward is meant to be the advantage of less players on the other team. Instant Spawn FTL
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2009
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  3. knifer21

    knifer21 L1: Registered

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    Same as Pitto here, the no-go team barrier would be nice.
    Another thing would be to perhaps widen the area around the final point on round three because once the Blu team reach that point, it's quite easy to just spam the red spawn. Maybe that's just me though. Failing that, maybe adding another spawn door could slow down the amount of spam on that point.
     
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  4. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    Stage 2-2 needs an entirely new passage or something, it's always been the stage I've had the most problem with, all of the exits drop you into a confined space filled with sentries and enemies
     
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  5. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Not to say "no, you're wrong" but you are actually wrong, take a look at dustbowl, and even goldrush ;)
    But thats always been one of the things on my list to change if needed, I'll have to make that entire area no build in that case, which makes me a sad bunny
     
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  6. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    The main chokepoint on the whole map, and the point where RED normally triumphs, is through the tunnel in stage 2-2. People are calling for alternate routes, when I would point out, that there are plenty of alternate routes, and one particularly good one through a mine shaft, however, nobody seems to use them, everybody seems to want to pile through the tunnel at the opposing team, rather then taking them out from behind.

    The two tunnels facing directly at the 2nd CP are kind of useless, because RED can get instant sniper coverage, and even predict when people are coming through.

    I'm not sure how'd I fix it, but I'd definately give people a better chance to get behind RED, by either making it a more obvious side route, or restructuring the way up to that area such that it is safe.
     
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  7. Waif

    Waif L6: Sharp Member

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    Pretty much that.
    Stage 2 is very difficult for blue as just after the first cap the tunnel is a massive chokeppoint for demos/ snipers. Getting the cart out of the tunnel and into the open cap is near impossible if both team are equal as red has such a huge advanatage.

    Im not sure what you can do to balance that, perhaps add another side path in/ leading out of the main tunnel where the payload track is. (you know, just at the end of the tunnel where the track turns around to go out side, make a one way path straight ahead that comes out near the rock that red always hides behind with sentrys perhaps?)

    Also just a personal request, but the end explosion, make it actually explode something hehe. (Ie: Debris/. barrels flying around) :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2009
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  8. nubcake

    nubcake L4: Comfortable Member

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    I think the entire second point on round two needs a revisal. When you put it onto paper it seems to converge into a big chokepoint. Maybe you could just settle for a hallway that... wait a minute I need a diagram to explain my idea. i'll re-edit this post in a tic D:

    EDIT: Damn your lack of strikethrough. Anyway I just realised I don't need a diagram. In Dustbowl 1-2, there's a path straight from 1-1 that leads to a potential forward base area that everyone seems to use (I'm sure you know what I mean but I'm getting to something). Maybe from the first point have a raised tunnel (could connect to the other tunnel above the main tunnel) that leads to a forward base not far from the CP shed, and have a similar forward base area that serves as a second passage. Because, really, Hoodoo 2-2 doesn't seem to have a good forward base area.
     
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  9. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    Say to Robin: if you make me an explosion, I'll give you the updated version.
     
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  10. NightHawK

    NightHawK L2: Junior Member

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    Stage 2, has lots of bottlenecks and a bit hard for blu to win.
     
  11. Jonah

    aa Jonah

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    Well, um, to be honest, the whole map gives me a headache. I just played the map a moment ago, and as red I got lost multiple times. I wouldn't like to get lost in a map even on my first time playing it, and this wasn't my first time playing it. And there are these routes that take me to the same place I left from. But the thing that really bothers me is the art style. It's literally a mess of different styles, I see goldrush there and badlands there, and oh, some hydro in the last stage. I'm not saying you shouldn't use hydro's signs in custom maps, but they just don't fit here. And now my head hurts
     
  12. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    Out of curosity what promted you to do this?
     
  13. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    The only problem I have is 2-2. Worst chokepoint ever, especially if red gets smart and builds around that area. Might be balanced, but not fun.
     
  14. Ravidge

    aa Ravidge Grand Vizier

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    Hoodoo is a fun map, but stage 2-2 is the most troublesome point.
    There are lots of alternative paths but the playerflow doesn't lead to them. you have to go back/up/turn 180 to find them, which makes this section a pain for the players who doesn't know the map insideout.

    The area with the cap itself is pretty narrow too, I don't know the exact distances but sentries have a quite easy time avoiding blindspots, especially when you have the rest of your team around you to help with any possible threats.
     
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  15. Inqwel

    Inqwel L6: Sharp Member

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    I've played it several different times, I often find that space in Stage one, area one feeling too claustrophobic. Especially near that bridge the cart rides over, I'm mostly talking about under it.

    Stage Two has a few problems that people are moaning and groaning about when I play. The overhang before checkpoint one is an issue, since it seems that its the only place sentries have been built recently, every time. Actually, I've played a few games now where there are three or more sentries right there. Its one of the harder spots to stop the defending team. Perhaps another ramp up that leads up there, a little more opportunistic for the attacking team would help.

    Stage Two, Area Two: The long mining tunnel is rather unused. There are two good reasons not to go there. One: Since we have to walk past the hole like ducks in a shooting gallery, there's no ammo crates and the only health pack, once you get over there, is the small one. I'd prefer that if you decide to change/add the packs that you place them so people see them right away. I'm talking about putting them right on the track against the wall, framed by the doorway.

    Second: The door exiting the cart tunnel can be overpowered by one sentry gun across the battlefield. Any Defending Engineer who builds behind the rock where the medium health pack and Ammo crate remain, can have their sentry gun defeat the purpose of the tunnel. It was one of the hardest spots to take down the sentry from. The heavy couldn't, the ubered pyro was shot into the sky, and every time the door opened, the sniper was taking too much damage before he could try and take it out.

    Personally, I don't like the one way door where it is. If it was a little forward, towards the point, using that metal frame instead, I'd be a little happier about it. That way it doesn't open by accident.


    I haven't seen any problems with the other areas.

    If you need any visuals for what I am talking about, I am willing to give.
     
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  16. Phobos

    Phobos L3: Member

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    It gets indeed a bit repetitive now, but the chokepoint starting at 2-2 is my main gripe with the map. I have played the map several times on the Recondos server with normal respawn times, and the map always stops at that point. People who know the map assemble a team of engies (usually around three to four) on the balcony overlooking the cp. A heavy or pyro next to a dispenser guards the way up to the balcony with auto fire to keep Spies away.

    The only thing that I've seen work against this was three ubered Demos that took out all sentries at the same time.

    The problem is that the side tunnel leading to the final area of stage 2 is completely disregarded by everyone. Maybe it's because this route is long and feels like a detour.
    But even if someone tries to get to the sentries through there (coming from red's side of the tunnel), only a soldier has a chance to take the sentries down beyond their maximum firing distance. And a soldier cannot outdamage the repair rate of an engie. Not to forget that you are easy prey for anyone respawning in the red base while you fire at the sentries.

    My suggestions:
    -Change the area to give blue more angles to shoot at any sentry positioned there. For example a bigger window to lob stickies and grenades in.
    -Or add a wall/obstruction that prevents sentries from shooting down on the point/in the tunnel. So the progress of the cart won't be stopped by sentries built there but the access to the side tunnel is still defended.
    -Or change the "forgotten" side route to a direct way up to the mine tunnel, so the balcony can be flanked without having to run far and being exposed to newly spawned reds. This would also probably make more it interesting for engies to setup a forward base in the mine tunnel.


    I have to admit, a bigger explosion would be nice, too.
     
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  17. drp

    aa drp

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    i think a forward staging area near 2-2 would help greatly. expand one of the upper tunnels in a room with a gate just like dustbowl 1-2 and you're in business
     
  18. umbratile

    aa umbratile bepis

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    You're looking into the problem of the automatic cart, I presume?

    I completely agree about the stage 2-2 problems, but I've got nothing to add.

    I think stage 3-2 is a bit of a clusterf***, is there anything you could do to make RED's final building a little more open and streamlined?

    EDIT: I don't think the one-way doors should be non-functionaøl before the first point is captured in stages 1 and 2 (and possibly 3... I've barely ever played stage 3). It's only there to stop Spies, but why would you? It's their job to get behind the enemy!
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2009
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  19. uma plata

    uma plata L6: Sharp Member

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    Yea, I've run into problems with the ledge over the track right after 2-1. Prone to sentry stacking

    Blu could use more access to that area, either a window you could spam stickies into, or a ramp up there from the previous section. As it is, you need to expose yourself to have any shot at the sentries. Multiple ubers are the only chance you have
     
  20. pitto

    pitto L3: Member

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    *facepalms
    Note to self, play tf2 more you obviously don't do it enough.
     
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