Hoodoo - likes/dislikes

Trotim

aa
Jul 14, 2009
1,195
1,045
I have NO idea if these have been mentioned already. Please bear with me if so:
1. You can stand behind the little shack the payload goes into in stage 2 to block the cap
2. Again in stage 2, before cap 1, you can actually build a tele exit under the little bridge that goes to the health and ammo to get players stuck

(sorry again for the lack of screenshots)
 

Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
2. Again in stage 2, before cap 1, you can actually build a tele exit under the little bridge that goes to the health and ammo to get players stuck

Heh. I remember doing that by accident and everybody was like, "PSY, YOUR EXIT?" for about one minute before I finally walked up to it and realised there was about 5 people stuck inside each other. "Oh..." :p
 

iciz

L2: Junior Member
Mar 17, 2009
84
60
The 'stats' collect a total win/loss so if red win stage 1, thats a win for them, if they win stage 2 thats a win for them, if they win stage 3, thats a win for them. only if they lose stage 3 do blue get a win. So... if you balance all of your stages properly, ie 50/50 each stage (which i'm not sure is the best way to go about it) you end up with red winning faaar more than blue. I however went for an overall 50/50 ratio. which i accieved.
See here - http://psychostats.canardpc.com/map.php?id=47 two hundred and twenty nine games says my map is perfectly (statisticly) balanced on a 24 man unmodded server with half inteligent regulars.

Case closed.

The official stats take into account fail servers (other wise known as modded servers, 32 man servers or instant respawn servers) because there are a lot of those it reflects badly in the stats. I did however see fit to do some modifications to it regardless of my satisfaction with the statistical balance.

Case reopened, Yahoo!


I'm glad to hear your map is “statistically” balanced when running on an unmodified server, (those things do exist right?), but unfortunately here in the real world, it suffers greatly. Not that this is your fault in any way though. Goldrush is not far behind in the official stats.

The real issue here is that Valve's choice to allow server operators to mutilate.. I mean “modify” every setting to they're heart's desire is ruining the overall experience for everyone. How many of those servers in the official stats are vanilla? Clearly the majority of servers don't run it the way it was intended. Who knows how much worse it would be if only the modded servers were shown.


Anyways, concerning this issue about stages being way more of an advantage to Red. I've always thought the multistage payload map was designed to make it MORE fair to the teams. I think of it more like one large map broken up into more manageable chunks. If the map wasn't broken up, we'd just have one really long track, making travel time to the cart ridiculous, and defense strategies confusing and scattered.

I don't really think that just because Red CAN win at anytime in the match means multiple stages give them more of an advantage. If Blue gets past the first stage and we count this as a win for Blue, then shouldn't it be counted as a win in the stats? Youme, How on earth can you balance the map “overall” without balancing all stages at the same time?

The stat page shows a win for blue only if they make it through all three stages. This causes the stats page to show A/D maps as more Red friendly than they really are.

You see, if blue makes it through 0, 1, or 2 rounds, it counts as a Red win. So it actually makes perfect sense that Red would "win" far, far more than Blue according to the stats page. If Blue team makes it up to stage 3 and can't complete it, that's totally normal. And that happens all the time.

Just because completing all three stages is very difficult doesn't mean it's "unbalanced." Unbalanced means one team doesn't have a fair chance of winning.

edit: youme ninja posted. :p

:facepalm If it is more difficult for one team to attack then the other to defend. It is "unbalanced." It is "unfair."

Case closed?
 

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
At least you're making some kind of attempt to accommodate modded servers. I mean, valve maps are balanced for vanilla and still fun to play on modded servers.

People have different ways of having fun and what they want from a game. Disregarding them and shutting out a portion of the playerbase is incredibly elitist and doesn't seem like a wise decision.
 
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Waif

L7: Fancy Member
Mar 22, 2009
412
125
Unfortunately most servers are "fail servers" (your definition, not mine :p) with slots of up to 32 players and many IR ones are abroad as well.
This ultimately means the map has to be balanced in its design, rather then spawn times, so theres not a lot you can do aboutt Hoodoo.
 
Aug 19, 2008
1,011
1,158
i was playing yesterday on the controlpoint-servers
3rd stage the cart started rolling on it´s own up to the last point, unstoppable :/
this happened both times i was defending and attacking

pl_hoodoo_final0000.jpg

pl_hoodoo_final0001.jpg
 

Bermuda Cake

L9: Fashionable Member
Feb 20, 2009
679
480
I don't play hoodoo much but its definetly one of my favourite pl_maps, it seems to be able to accommadate larger teams as well as smaller.
Although this isn't a dislike or a like, why did you use a prop for the door blocking off the first and second stages? The one that looks like its closed on something and has become distorted. It's in props_hoodoo i think.
Why not use displacements?
http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/3/3/1/8/coyotemainotherview.jpg
yes I shamelessly stole your idea, but don't worry, my map is shit! :laugh:
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
I don't play hoodoo much but its definetly one of my favourite pl_maps, it seems to be able to accommadate larger teams as well as smaller.
Although this isn't a dislike or a like, why did you use a prop for the door blocking off the first and second stages? The one that looks like its closed on something and has become distorted. It's in props_hoodoo i think.
Why not use displacements?
http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/3/3/1/8/coyotemainotherview.jpg
yes I shamelessly stole your idea, but don't worry, my map is shit! :laugh:

That door has to be toggled on/off. rather than make it a simple brush and look boring it was made a simple model and looks more interesting.
You cant make displacements entities, so you can't toggle displacements thus making it impossible to do the above with a displacement.
 

littleedge

L1111: Clipping Guru
aa
Mar 2, 2009
986
605
1) Eerie, you should see me in Control Point more often - They and TF2maps.net are where I play (I was mentioned on Episode 94 :D)
2) Youme, why exactly does the cart do that? I'm just a curious one. What's screwed up that causes it? Do you know (implying you do since it's too much of a meme to fix)?
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
well i thought it was because of the decelleration of the cart not being high enough to stop it intime when lots of players were pushing it. it would roll straight into the point that told it to move to the next point, only then the command to tell it to stop would never go off and it would just keep going,


either i didnt increase the distance enough or theres something else.

Either way i hate payload cause of it!!!!
 

Blue552

L3: Member
Sep 16, 2009
137
18
Bigger.

I like badwater basin and goldrush because there is alot of unused space which just lets you breath every now and then.

Most people on my servers skip hoodoo - I think the biggest problem is simply that, it feels so small at times that basically demo spam is the only way to go.

The final stage being the worse, I do like the recent changes though. Just want a way to kind of open it up a bit.



If you're going to give it extensive changes just make a hoodoo v2.0 or something.
 

evanonline

L420: High Member
Mar 15, 2009
485
273
I figured Hoodoo changes were all done with, but now that this has been bumped...

Hoodoo just has one last problem left with it, I feel--2-2. 2-1 was fixed up perfectly in a very simple manner and i think that just by cutting off a few easy-to-turtle corners 2-2 could be dealt with just as efficiently. My BIGGEST problem: the one corner between one of the hoodoos and the stairs that lead up to the elevated platform that the one way doors come out to. That spot is far too easy to defend.

I'd get pictures to show in more detail, but I'm sleepy right now. Tomorrow I shall! Once 2-2 is fixed I think Hoodoo will start getting more playtime because that's really its big flaw right now on the servers I play.
 
Aug 10, 2009
1,240
399
I used to not like Hoodoo for its close-quarterdness but after a few good games I warmed up to it.. I still don't like it with 16v16 as its literally raining spam, and where its not, the attackers cap really fast, so it doesn't last long. Also, the fact that the bottom half of blue spawn doesn't have a func_respawnroom makes me angry even though I changed the 'die on change class' to no.
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
Guys, you shouldn't be using this thread as though anything will get changed. I'm done with hoodoo.

I will not be altering it ever again.

and @ absurd - its not part of spawn, thats why you can die there.
 

Bermuda Cake

L9: Fashionable Member
Feb 20, 2009
679
480
That door has to be toggled on/off. rather than make it a simple brush and look boring it was made a simple model and looks more interesting.
You cant make displacements entities, so you can't toggle displacements thus making it impossible to do the above with a displacement.

fair play