I can't even be bothered to continue reading this thread after this guy said he understands TF2 balance and design and thinks a map proven to work in Far Cry 2 will do fine in TF2 as a result.
OK. Alright. Great.
1. It is said adjustments will be made in the original post. Had you read that, you would know that I fully understand a map cannot be copied exactly from one game to another. Please refer back to the original post.
The amount i play tf2 in a day sometimes is scary, yet i have only one map that anyone can consider good on some level.
Saying playing TF2 a lot makes you good at making TF2 maps is like saying watching a lot of tv shows makes you good TV writer.
I never said it made me a good mapper, I said it gives me a complete understanding of each class's role, and it does. Sure, Ill agree that time played doesnt always = understanding, but in some cases it does. In this case, it does. I play every class and know what they are capable of. While Im not the bestest TF2 player evar, I usually top the scoreboard AND have been accomplishing the goal while doing it, not just farming points.
Well, make it to a1 and we can test if the map works.
The worst that could happen is you learn it doesn't so you can adjust it appropriately, and we'll see if the sightlines are fine and how much TF2 differs from most other FPS nowadays
That's a different game. So instead of designing a map for TF2, you're making a remake of a "popular" Far Cry 2 map? That's not gonna work.
Do keep in mind the comments you got here may be harsh but in the end we're all working together to make good maps. Nobody is insulting you when they say the map isn't good
This I can agree with, which is why in the original post I stated clearly that I would be making changes to the layout to make it TF2 appropriate. No one seems to have read that at all. I even changed some of the sightlines and layout already, which is shown below.
If anything is clear from your screenshots, it's that pretty much everyone here knows more about tf2 level design than you do. Shut up and listen and maybe you'll give yourself a chance to learn something.
This is the sort of childishness I am talking about. You cant look at the very beginnings of a map and make statements like that without purely trying to be insulting.
Now on to business. The screenshots below illustrate just how much of the assumptions about dimensions and scaling are wrong...which is 99% of it. Especially this one:
Hold your horses there fella. No need to jump on the defencive. You wont learn anything if is all you do is disagree, reject and ignore any advice you don't like.
I can see by your screenshots some of those distances are clearly over 2048 units in length (thanks to the spawn point reference and texture scaling/tiling). Standard "lengthy" sightlines appear anywhere between 1,800 and 2,600-2,800 units, if you exceed these then we are giving a pre-emptive warning to avoid it if you can because generally they are really really bad.
D) Far Cry 2 isn't TF2; and this is kind of my point when i say there's no applicable layout design. The map doesn't appear to have been designed for TF2, now you admit you've been testing it in a completely different game with different gameplay mechanics. This proves my point. Just because the map works in 1 game does not give it a seal of approval for every other game in existance. Your failure to notice that was my primary point of concern, in order to learn the nuances of TF2 mechanics you need to study TF2, not Far Cry 2. One of the things that makes TF2 so unique is it's class based gameplay along with its strange movement perks such as knock-back and explosive propulsion.
Which I also once again
refer Grazr back the the original post that clearly states Ill be making adjustments for TF2.
This screen shows below that the largest area is by far smaller than 2048 as you said you could clearly see. Now, you can clearly see it is much smaller than that. This is the problem I had with your post, which kicked off the entire 'ego' thing...you didnt read my original post, and made assumptions as to sizing right off the get go instead of asking.
The next screen shows the longest sightline in the map, leaving out the area at the bottom where no players will need to pass through or even be in unless they are counter sniping. Its 1852 units from the very back corner, and offers a small cone of view when standing back there. If the sniper were to stand at the front of the shipping crate, it makes the view roughly 100 feet long, and telephone poles as well as other detail to be added later will break up the view and provide cover for Hoovies...who shouldnt even be taking that route but surely will at some point in the match.
* I also must point out I hit 0 instead of 1 on the numpad in the screenshot
Also, there are two routes that completely bypass this alley...and its location makes it the out-of-the way route to take anyway. It will be the least trafficked route, which you can see in the screen below it.
As you can see, the longest sightline is in the longest route, and will be the least used. Also, all paths lead to the same choke point, funneling players to the battle.
Lastly, we have the largest open area on ground level, which would be much more of a concern than a rooftop's exposure. 740x864 is less than half the 2048that was apparently 'clearly visible from texture scaling and spawn points'
Now what I can easily do it remove the rooftop access to the smaller building towards the top of the map. That would further limit Sollys and Demos from flying about the map at will. Or I could simply allow them access on the lower roof level and extend the upper level our of reach and/or block it with player clips. That would also allow a limites vantage point on the battle area below.
My biggest problem with Grazr's post was that he was completely uninformed about the subject and jumped to conclusions not only about my credibility but down to scaling of the map. You must do your research as he himself stated before jumping into anything, and that includes forum posts. The information about how I would alter the layout to fit TF2 was there in the original post, and
asking about dimensions would have been far better than assuming that you can eyeball hammer units like that.
Im going to defend myself and my work when I know I am right and people have made wide assumptions and are completely incorrect. His is also the ONLY post that was reacted to in that way, and if you all take the time to review the entire thread you would see that. I took Grazr's post as purely insulting because of that. Not only did I create 100s of maps for FC2, but I have mapped for games dating all the way back to Timeplitters. I am slo building a total conversion Source Mod. Does that make me automatically qualified to pump out TF2 maps? Of course not. Having used Hammer for 3 years and playing Tf2 for 4 years certainly helps though, which is why I want to try an Urban map instead of the typical industrial/farm TF2 settings. Its more of a challenge and I appreciate help. I just ask that people be better informed and take the time read the entire post before making assumptions.