[WIP]CTF/PL Grizzly Hills

[Sol]

Edit: See later post for updated shots.

This is my first map ever, and figured I'd start out with a concept that came about while I was doodling map ideas. It is a dual payload map, wherein you must capture the enemy intel in order to unlock barriers along the track to let you push the cart further. There are two levels to the map. The upper level that the bases and a hilly terrain separating them are on, and a mine under the hills that the majority of the tracks run on. At the moment all I have is one of the bases in very rough form, but figured I'd throw it up here for some crits and suggestions from ya'll.

Here is the basic concept layout:

You can see that the layout of the base has changed somewhat already in the shots below, but this early work is more of a continuation of the design phase than actually building.

And now for some wip shots. I'm new at this, so please point out any flaws you see before I learn any bad habits.

http://www.venardhi.com/mapshots/ctf_grizzly_00001.jpg

http://www.venardhi.com/mapshots/ctf_grizzly_00002.jpg

http://www.venardhi.com/mapshots/ctf_grizzly_00003.jpg

http://www.venardhi.com/mapshots/ctf_grizzly_00004.jpg

http://www.venardhi.com/mapshots/ctf_grizzly_00005.jpg

http://www.venardhi.com/mapshots/ctf_grizzly_00006.jpg

http://www.venardhi.com/mapshots/ctf_grizzly_00007.jpg

Going to start on the upper level of the terrain and then move on to the caves as soon as I'm fairly happy with the shape and size of it. Any tips (or links to them) on making caves would be much appreciated.

- el.Sol

 

[zpqrei]

The gameplay sounds awesome! But on this image:

On the right hand side I see a long sniper-friendly vvis line!

 

[Sgt Frag]

Looks pretty cool so far.

One problem I see is it looks like roofs are low enough to get on. Which means your whole map might be visible and optimizing might get really hard. You probabably need some really tall buildings above the arches and where that large orange roof is to block vis.

 

[Sol]

Yeah, I know visibility right now looks like you'll see clearly across the map(and you clearly can in the shots below), but mind you the area between the two bases will be high hills and cliffs with tunnels and ravines running through them to break it up. I'd rather not limit the ability of rocket jumpers too much due to the fact that invisible walls and ceilings annoy me and I want these roofs to be viable alternate paths to and from the bases.

And now for some images:

This is the current layout minus mountains or underground areas: You can see the final big building is still very WIP while I work on on the scale of the base as a whole.

And some shots of me mucking about as a scout to check for scale and any other niggling details I need to lock down before I begin with the real meat of the map.

I know it don't look like much at the moment, but I want to give ya'll a feel for the scale and layout from the ground.

Thanks again.

- el.Sol

 

[zpqrei]

If you want third person view (it seems you do) set sv_cheats to 1 and type "thirdperson". Easy, 'eh?

Also, don't run though as a scout, it'll make you make the map too big. Trust me, I've learnt this from experience. For a sense of scale run around as a heavy

 

[Ida]

Wow, are those rocks brushes? If they are, they look excellent - but wouldn't you rather use the rock props?

 

[Sol]

I probably will eventually, making them with brushes was a quick and dirty way to get them the size and shape I wanted quickly though.

 

[Sgt Frag]

The rock brushes look pretty cool, although it'll be hard to match that size shape unless you make custom models. I'd algin the tex better and keep em.

I tried to make a pack of alpine displacment rocks before, but displacements smooth too much and you can't get the sharp edges you can with brushes.

I think overall it looks pretty good. I use scout alot to judge distances because I know the Valve times (arena spawn to spawn 12-15 seconds, ctf spawn to intel approx 30 seconds). Heavy is twice as long so it's a time killer.
I don't know the official PL times but the cart goes about as fast as a heavy so that's probably a good judge.
In this case I'd almost say the scout should be able to get to the other base in less than 60 seconds, if the whole team is waiting for the intel cap befoire they can do anything it could be a very long winded map.

I'm actually not sure how good the concept will work. Sometimes it can be hard enough to cap intel with a whole team working towards that goal. Then if you are also trying to defend the cart, you'll probably never get to the other teams intel to cap it and reverse the cart. Waste can go back and forth for quite awhile, I imagine if one team almost gets the cart and the other team gets their intel the cart could possibly go all the way back across the map again before it changes...

 

[Sol]

There are two carts.

Visualize the diagram below: Red starts on one side, Blue on the other, each have a destination in the other's base. Along the way are three barriers. Each of the barriers is a capture point, that will act to stop the cart from going backwards in case it takes a long time between caps, with a gate or other physical barrier in front of it to stop it from moving forward until the intel is captured to "give them the code" to unlock it.

[RS]------||------||------||--[RD]
[BD]--||------||------||------[BS]

Both teams will be capturing the intel, pushing their cart, and defending all at once. It will be very difficult to "turtle up" effectively because of it, and should allow all classes and types of players to do what they do best because of the various roles required. It should also work well as a high-population map because of the size and need for people to be doing all these roles at once. I'd be happy to take into consideration any arguments ya'll have against it though, I realize it may be a bit over-thought for a game like TF2 which generally has very simple A->B/A<->B mission targets.

 

[Sgt Frag]

Well, that explains it better. I was thinking it was a twoway cart that only moved with intel cap.

So yeah, that might work alright. Would be interesting to see. Still though consider making the intel pretty easy to cap as it's not the only objective. (bad example, but if it was 2fort you'd almost never cap the intel so you'd never move the cart)

 

[Sol]

That is the plan. Easy enough that it doesn't become the entire focus of a game, hard enough that a scout isn't just gonna run in and grab it three times before the team can even push the cart to the first barrier.

 

[Sol]

I built a big mountain in the middle out of displacements with some tunnels through it, but they're all seamy in-game despite looking fine in the hammer viewports. Drew in the tunnels and future plans that help to complete the picture of the upper level.

Please post any thoughts you have regarding this constantly evolving layout.