[WIP]cp_mines

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by ChronoTriggerFan, Mar 3, 2008.

  1. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    435
    Positive Ratings:
    72
    Well, this is my first "real" map...(I been messing around in hammer since November, I should know all the basics by now...). And of course it has THE most original name in the galaxy :D It may also appear as a contest map, if I can crank out the other 2 stages in time... we'll see...

    Anyway, this is a dustbowl style 3 round capture point map. The first stage starts out in the underground mines, but the middle capture point (there's 3) is above ground, on top of the roof of the underground research facility. It was originally going to be a tall building, but from past experience, that might intimidate players with the fear of falling off to their death. the map is symmetrical, with no team on any definite offense or defense positions.
    The second stage has red on the defensive position. The BLU team starts out in RED's coal mine, and attempts to conquer it. its basically an inverted U shape.
    The third one has RED attacking BLU's power plant (they may be trying to destroy the practice of fossil fuel... we may all be saved!!!!). The control point is actually behind the plant, at their research facility.

    Now, this wouldn't be proper without some pictures right? they're all of the first stage, as I haven't completed the second 2 yet...

    [​IMG]

    The middle capture point




    [​IMG]

    A storage area, or dump, on the top level of the facility




    [​IMG]

    A stairwell to the top (credit goes to termaximus, as I blatantly ripped off his one from 2SkyScraper)




    [​IMG]

    A storage crate of RED's, divides the top part of the facility and acts as a wall in an inconspicuous way!




    [​IMG]

    The central elevator in the facility, one of the many ways to get to the top...




    [​IMG]

    A view of the elevator shaft, I believe this to be the second floor of the "Super Hi-Technical Facility"




    [​IMG]

    The start area, looking through a window directly outside the spawn room. this upper level was designed to prevent spawn camping, and the exits of the upper level are spread out across the circle area.(ignore the cubemap error... I'll get around to it tomorrow)




    [​IMG]

    A window in a RED only room. The red and blue hazard strips are there to draw the players eyes to them, and also any enemy players preparing to attack. (yes... there is a BLU only glass room RIGHT above the capture point... it doesn't have a door on the floor though...)


    The first map will probably be ready enough for beta by the end of the week, but I won't send it out without the other 2 rounds!
     
  2. Sean of the Dead

    Sean of the Dead L3: Member

    Messages:
    123
    Positive Ratings:
    4
    i would say get rid of the hazard strips, and change the textures on the buttons :p
     
  3. poopster101

    poopster101 L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    155
    Positive Ratings:
    5
    i agree with him ^^^
     
  4. R3dRuM

    R3dRuM L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    303
    Positive Ratings:
    19
    Design seems good, but, it needs a hella lot of work
     
  5. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    435
    Positive Ratings:
    72
    The buttons were a mistake of a texture replace... I'll fix that tonight... and the hazard stripes... fine...


    And T0rk3y, elaborate, it intrigues me :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2008
  6. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

    Messages:
    1,616
    Positive Ratings:
    1,275
    There's a tutorial in the Tutorials section on adding detail. Now that you've got the basic brushwork done you need to work on adding more lights (2nd screencap wayy too dark for tf2), props, and detail brushes to flesh out your map. Look through for example badlands and examine the way Valve places down their detail. Try to avoid large stretches of one continual texture. This will all take you a lot of time, which is what T0rk3y meant I believe, but will really pay off when you see how pretty your map can look. This is a great start and I hope adding detail works out.
     
  7. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    435
    Positive Ratings:
    72
    I know how to add detail... but I would prefer to have my map altogether (I split it in half for compile time purposes...) I agree with it being to dark...the lighting is only temporary, I'll get some spotlights there some time today. and of course there is plenty of windows looking out into the mines that I still need to prop out, along with adding some props and sticking them in corners and alcoves...
     
  8. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    435
    Positive Ratings:
    72
    well, I had to make an executive decision to make it a one round map due to time constraints. but I thought it was too small so I added 2 more capture points.(well really one, but the map is symmetrical...)

    [​IMG]

    Its not finalized, nor is it the final layout...
     
  9. Koei

    Koei L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    186
    Positive Ratings:
    4
    You should make some visgroups. Makes the mapping itself much easier. My map consists of several large area's which each has his own visgroup. That way I don't get confused about which is what when working on the map. I even made visgroups for the displacements and playerclips. Just to get clutter out of the way :)
     
  10. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    435
    Positive Ratings:
    72
    thanks for the tip, I totally forgot about them for a second...


    EDIT and just fyi, the auto vis groups take care of displacements and player clips and stuff... hehe
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2008
  11. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    435
    Positive Ratings:
    72
    OK, I think this map is finally ready for beta! However, I'm still confused on the process of uploading it to the internet so people can download it and play it... anyone willing to help me out there?
     
  12. R3dRuM

    R3dRuM L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    303
    Positive Ratings:
    19
    Well, compile your map, take the bsp and compress it in .bz2 format using 7-Zip (google it)

    Now take that file and upload it to here by clicking downloads then, add file and follow all the steps and you should be good to go. Add screen shots once finished uploading.
     
  13. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    435
    Positive Ratings:
    72
    ahh, i was trying to upload the bsp file... my bad :D

    Edit: the file can be found here
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2008
  14. kimangroo

    kimangroo L3: Member

    Messages:
    111
    Positive Ratings:
    6
    Unfortunately there was some problem with the naming of the map bsp and so noone could dl the map from the server tonight. That meant that a full 24 man game went to an 8 man game for your map which kind of screwed the playtesting. I had to dl it manually and only got about 10/15 min of play time. Bearing that in mind, my comments:

    Overall, I think you're off to a good start to an interesting map but there is still some way to go.

    1) It's too big/not enough variation! I couldn't tell whether the distances between the spawns and cps where too big or whether it just felt that way because of few players + no detail/variation. But those huge tunnels, while cool, do need to be a lot smaller or have more variety and cover or something. Even if you don't want to worry about the details yet, you could try adding some of the tf2 rocks props in there as they will make a lot of difference to game play.

    2) Signs!! I know it's just a beta, but it's easy to forget that noone else has played your map and so unless there are a lot of signs it can be very difficult to know where to go. If someone is in the middle of a firefight in a random corridor, after they've spun around a few times firing rockets left, right and centre, unless they're are plenty of arrows and signs it's very difficult to know which direction you've come from and where to go next.

    3) Textures! I'm guessing that this is related to the whole preparing the file for server download thing, but there were a bunch of textures that were missing. Outside the tunnels there was this large dome like glass biodome/tunnel thing and all the textures there seemed missing. Or was it a cubemap problem? At least I just got the purple and black textures.

    As I said, cos of the dl issues I didn't get the chance to play this one properly this time so I can't comment on the gameplay or layout in any detail. Right now I think you need to solve the issues I mentioned above (recap: size/variation, signs and textures) first and then you can develop the map further from there.

    A good start to what could be a great map, just make sure you pay attention to the finer details of mapping as well as the general stuff.

    Hope my comments helped and good luck with it! :thumbup1:
     
  15. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    435
    Positive Ratings:
    72
    no custom textures were used. I said this at the beginning, but apparently you missed it because you had to dl the map. it was a cubemap error... i think it had to do with me renaming the map so the cubemap files were not present. I will be working nonstop to fix those problems. and did the dl problems have anything to do with me, or the server?

    Bering that in mind, everyone who got to playtest, could you please post bugs, suggestions, and complaints? much appreciated.
     
  16. TheBladeRoden

    TheBladeRoden L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    491
    Positive Ratings:
    165
    pretty much the same suggestions as above.

    Too big.
    Too many long passages with no indicators as to where they lead.
    Too dark in spots.
    And I got confused with the buttons and the doors and the elevators.
     
  17. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    435
    Positive Ratings:
    72
    I need input on this. I am thinking of placing a starting spawn in the resupply areas in the middle cp tower. This way, fighting would be more frantic.But, I also have thought of a problem with this; when the middle cp is taken, the team that captured the cp will be taken to a forward spawn, and the other team will still spawn in the building, where it will be hard to split the team up between cps, and this could be really unfair...
     
  18. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

    Messages:
    1,059
    Positive Ratings:
    219
    so...since you ask for input...I was there the entire time
    1) everyone has said this but still...BIG!!! ...yeah
    2) In that area in between that last cap and the glass (it was glass right?) bridge, namely the really tall hallways, 1st, they are far longer then they need to be, and 2nd, my fps drops to 35 there, and I usually maintain 180fps for custom maps, and 130 for the stock maps, so its quite a drop.
    3) In the overly shiny and purple area i honestly see no reason to keep the 4th floor, it just takes you to a somewhat open outside type area with metal fences and takes you in a circle, rarely do you run into anyone, it doesn't seem to serve any purpose
    4) The way to the 3rd cp seems very confusing, and marking clearer paths could really help.
    5) If you are going to go that shiny please, please make sure you confirm that the cubemaps are working.
    6)Im not sure if this was your map or someone elses, but ill throw it out there, at one point I changed classes while in the spawn room and died.
    7)Right now I think scouts are a bit overpowered, likely just a factor of the size but still.
    8)And the map didn't really look dark to me, in fact i can recall a time when it was so bright that the entire screen was white, then I died for a reason im still not sure of
     
  19. MacNetron

    MacNetron L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    203
    Positive Ratings:
    47
    Being on the server one hour before gameday to preload maps (I'm really a smart guy :) ), I also had the opportunity to walk onto it alone.
    Basically, it's too big and the middle is confusing. Now, the useful comments ;)

    - The middle tower is confusing. It is hard to find the correct way to the 3rd CP. It looks like there are 3 shafts (still don't know for sure!).
    Also, as MrAlBobo said above, the 4th floor seems unnecessary. It appears to be resupply area, but if you are going to the 3rd (upper) CP, you expect to get to it by 4th floor, not 3rd floor.
    Suggestion: (1) remove it or (2) add a way to get to the 3rd CP, as that would make 3rd CP better reachable. Then the 3rd floor-way would become the 'sneaky' way.
    And maybe floorplan on each floor ("You are here") ?

    - The way from 3rd CP to 4th CP is only reachable by going down all the way to your own base (almost back to 2nd CP). The tower has loads of func_respawnroomvisualizer to keep enemy away. that means after capping 3rd, that team will stay out the tower, but the other team will go to it.
    As a result of those 2 things above (as of gameplay), I went playing engineer and immediately on start I started going to 4th CP. Before anyone started capping 3rd CP, I had a fully operating level-3 sentry at 4th CP. I guess that is not what you want...
    Suggestion: remove the ramp from 2nd CP to 4th CP and make entries through (for instance) floor 1 and 2. In that case the tower becomes much more integrated into the gameplay. Soldiers and demomen can still use the current way to surprise people.

    - In the outside dome, you have to jump all the time to get out, onto the edge. It's to high to just walk. I hate that kind of jumps. Have a look at Gravel pit. Loads of height difference, but you never have to jump. That means you can concentrate on fragging the enemy without being "attacked" by the map itself.

    I leave it to these remarks now. Should be enough work to think of what to use and how to do it.
    Personally I think that above remarks make the map less big, especially if you shorten the tunnels to the dome :)

    EDIT: btw, I made this funny screenie. We don't need Garry's mod to encounter funny situations:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2008
  20. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    435
    Positive Ratings:
    72
    I don't know, I was thinking about putting a balcony on the 4th level to make it advantageous, and encourage players to go up it. I was thinking "Players don't really want to climb 4 floors to get to a cp, 3 is enough". I also reversed the walls, to make the gameplay direction where I want it to go (you have to go around the outside to the 4th cp, not directly to it from the forward spawn.) I also removed the stairs in the tunnel blocking the original path outward. the stairs were a late addition and length was OBVIOUSLY not thought about. this makes it about 10 times quicker to the building.