[WIP] cp_mapnel

[jasska]

(I dont have a good name for it yet, this name is temporary)

My first WIP thread as well as my introduction. I have been reading these forums quite alot since I started making maps about 5 months ago. Havent posted much though. Only maps I have released so far are two soldier jumpmaps. Both had some non tf2 style scenery, but for this project I plan to make everything fit into the tf2 theme. This is my first try at a official gamestyle. This is 5-CP granary/badlands style pushmap mainly for competitive 6v6 play.
The first idea behind this map was to use parts of my favorite Valve map Gravel Pit in 5-CP pushmap, the most popular maptype played competitively.
Middle is very similar to Gravel Pit point B. 1st/5th CPs are somewhat similar to Gravel C. 2nd/4th point is the one that Ive had most problems with and its the one that may need most editing. I havent thought much about theme and details so far. Some Gravel Pit scenery to middle and maybe something more spytech towards the last point. I want to keep it fairly simple, easy to optimize. Theres no skybox or lighting. Captimes and respawntimes will need tweaking. So will health and ammo placement. For now i just cut brushes in an angle to make those slopes. Later on I will make those using displacements.

Overhead view:

1st/5th cp:

2nd/4th cp:

middle:

Download link:
http://koti.welho.com/jhallen1/mapnel/

The map has become more complex than what I orginally intended, because I kept adding stuff to counter different spots instead of modifying the ones that are already there. I really need to make it smaller and simplify it. Main thing I have really struggled so far is the basic layout of different paths to CPs.
Sorry for any spelling errors, my english is not perfect.

Any feedback and suggestions welcomed.

 

[jasska]

I modified paths from middle to 2nd/4th and from there to final. Tried to make it much more simpler and more linear. The whole 2nd/4th cp area is new. I added light_environment and some basic lighting after getting some complaints about how ugly the map looks with allbright. I need to find better sun angle though.

Distance of the path from the first spawn to the last cp might still be too long. I tried to measure how long that walk takes in granary and badlands. It still takes few seconds more on this map than it does on granary.
Have to do some more playtesting.

New overhead screenshot:

New 2nd/4th cp:

Download link for the new version if anyone wants to take a look:
http://koti.welho.com/jhallen1/mapnel/cp_mapnel_a1b.bsp

 

[trainRiderJ]

I think you need to recompile, you must have had some autofilters on or something. It's impossible for red players to leave their base.

Here are some impressions I had while running through the map on my machine:

-I like the creative use of world geometry. Lots of variety with good vertical positions, should be lots of fun for scouts, soldiers, and demos.
-I'm a little concerned about there not being a strong enough defensive position for holding the second point, but I could be wrong
-If you're worried about it being hard to defend your last point, just make the cap time a little longer. Something similar to cp_well sounds about right
-Not much else I can say about the layout without some actual playtesting, but it looks like it would be a lot of fun to play

 

[jasska]

I forgot to change team value for that red spawn. Thanks for pointing that out. I hope that scouts arent too powerful, so that its not a complete nightmare for medics.

Some simple details to middle. Trying out different textures.

New path that goes behind the 2nd point from that right side cave. I've got no idea how this point will play out. Haven't playtested this yet.

I have tried to adjust respawntimes using that spawn adjust value in trigger_capture_area entities. Trying to do it so players from each team would meet near the choke between cps if they died at the same time. Either between 1st and 2nd or 2nd and middle depending how many cps do the teams have. I think 2nd forward spawn near middle needs to be moved closer to 4th point, similar to granary. Is there some better method of finding good respawntimes? Or is it just playtest, playtest, playtest?

http://koti.welho.com/jhallen1/mapnel/cp_mapnel_a2b.bsp

 

[Spike]

This starts to take shape. Round a little bit mroe the displacements, theres one that looks blocky. Also don't abuse using that brick texture, try making some texture variations so it doesn't look repetitive.

I like the CP house with a tunnel inside of it. Also the roof of the house looks cool. But I don't like the other green roofs, doesn't look very real.

Keep working

 

[jasska]

Updated to a5.
2nd point has seen most changes. 2nd forward spawns are now inside the middle house. The layout is almost done. For last two versions I have done some displacements. Starting to hate those already, just so much work. (Or maybe my way of doing them is just wrong dunno)
Main concern is still too good sniper spots. Im happy how heavy is useful in defending last point. Captimes and respawntimes are better.
I guess the theme will be something similar to badlands. Still havent thought about it much. Only the area behind red final has some details (1st screenshot).
Both sides are still almost identical. Only few texture differences and arrows.
Here are some screenshots:
First pic from old version.

Download link: http://koti.welho.com/jhallen1/mapnel/cp_mapnel_a5.rar

 

[jpr]

Kappas, suomalainen
Looks very promising so far

 

[trainRiderJ]

Don't forget to keep updating your original post with the download link for the most current version.

 

[Apom]

Hello there, I just played this on the ETF2L test pickup, so in an actual 6v6 situation. As a competitive Medic, my opinion is simple if blunt: the map is plain unplayable. The middle cap is a sort of open area where it was impossible for any single member of my team (whether soldier or heavy) to protect me from roaming scouts. I just kept dying over and over. Whenever I tried clinging to the walls so that my teammate didn't have to cover 360° of angle by himself, I got hammered to death by rockets from soldiers who used the roof as a dominating vantage point.

The tunnel sections between caps 1 and 2, as well as between 2 and 3, are similarly unplayable, although for a different reason: there are so many paths around that scouts can very easily get into the back of a team and catch the medic (or anyone else) from behind. Or even worse, pyros (yes, both teams had a pyro when we weren't fighting around the middle cap - it sounds cool since pyros are so underused in competitive play, but really it's not).

This post probably sounds like harsh criticism. The truth is, it is. However, this is not my mere opinion but everyone else's who played as well (only the scouts enjoyed it), so you should probably considering a massive redesign before going any further with this.