When is a final map final?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Kill_the_Bug, Nov 3, 2008.

  1. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    Ok, I released my map as final but I'm getting a lot of feedback saying that people are getting lost on my map - they don't know where the action is:confused:

    I tell them to follow the gunfire :p

    Ok, maybe as a mapper, we all know our maps so well that we could walk around them blind folded and players, when new, can get lost.

    I'm not sure if I'm different than most but I've been to that I have the ability to memorize the layouts of maps very, very quickly and maybe that's why I don't get lost - don't get lost in the real world either - I have always had the sense of knowing where I am at all times (like right now I'm in a cubicle on the 6th floor of an office building :p)

    This brings us to arrows - I'm finiding that the decal types aren't helping so I'm looking at doing those dynamic ones in the red circles.

    Does anyone have a test map of tutorial done of how these things work? The same arrows would be constantly switching and I wanted players to find their own routes to the battle istead of doing the lemming rush.

    It might be a big bonus add on to my map - but then it would be final-version3 :(

    So, if people say do this, this and this...when does your map become final?
     
  2. l3eeron

    l3eeron L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    A map is final after it's been playtested for hundreds of hours, when you and the people playing it say there's nothing left to improve. Not when you (the mapper) think it's final. Otherwise you run into this exact problem.


    To use the arrows you want, just place prop_dynamic, use the proper model (I forget the name off hand, but it's the ones from hydro), and point them in the right direction. You can change the skin to make it red or blue as well. Next give them a name so you can enable/disable (if needed) as desired.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 3, 2008
  3. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Simple: A map is finished when it's absolutely perfect. When you've squeezed all you know into the map, and when there simply is nothing more you can add, it's done. It's not finished if there's balancing to do or if it's possible to make it run smoother.
     
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  4. Kookies!

    Kookies! L1: Registered

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    As with software development, you need to have alpha and beta builds, and with each iteration of fixes have it quality tested.

    Look at Gmail for example...beta...because it isn't at the level that Google really wants it at (ok it's different for Google but this is the way most other software companies work).

    It's easy to do versioning with maps, just append _a_001 or _b_001 and change the number with each major change. This is easier on testers because it will automatically dl the correct map without conflicts, and also let them know that it's a work in progress.

    Check out this info on release cycles, it's pretty analogous to map making: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_cycle
     
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  5. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    I don't think I want my map to be final unless valve officialises it. There's too great of a chance something will be found I'll need to change, I don't care if I go to Release Candidate 34, once you make it final, you start looking like an idiot with final2 and final3 and final87. Just shows things have arisen that you should have found much much much earlier.

    Final 3? Forget it, use what you've learned and make a newer better map. And playtest it thoroughly so there is only one final.
     
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  6. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    ok tx for this but if I have a bomb that goes back and forth over same parts of the map how is the best way to trigger it? ie

    At round start - fire all round start entities (arrow relay 1) - these are relays fire arrows 1 2 3 4 etc all arrow point up for example.

    CP 1 is fired - Kill Arrow 1 relay? then fire arrow relay 2?

    etc etc etc?

    but here'e the question - if arrow realy one is pointed up how would I get arrow relay 2 to have the up arrow pointed to the left for example?
     
  7. l3eeron

    l3eeron L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    for each direction you need a new sign. Don't try to spin the sign with func_door or something (if that's what you're asking). Start with a batch of signs that are "Startdisable - no" then all the others (2,3,4) "Startdisabled - yes". Then disable batch 1, enable batch2.... disabale batch 2/enable batch3 etc etc.


    As far as getting them to switch back n forth depending on position of the bombcart (Im assuming bomb cart when you said bomb) use output from the path_track's "onpass" to fire to the signs.
     
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  8. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    Dang - new signs eh? will give it a shot - thanks
     
  9. l3eeron

    l3eeron L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    yep a whole batch of signs for each scenario you want to direct. I just added a bunch of dynamic signage to my map last night. That's how they do it in Hydro also.

    side note:

    when you're looking at the sign in hammer, the green line (or green axis) is the direction it's pointing.
     
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