MVM nav_avoid

[GreenLemon]

everyone know about that mvm contest,
and i read, watch, and listen to a lot of media to create mvm map,

but the only problem i got now, is that the bots give no f*** to any of the func_nav_avoid

i activate them manually, automatically, they are covering the nav mesh below them, i debug them, and even when they are active, bots don't care

maybe i failled something with something else as i don't learn all yet.

someone can help ?

 

[iiboharz]

Have a read of this

https://tf2maps.net/threads/nav-prefer-and-block-areas.32458/

 

[Yabayabayaba]

also you MUST generate a new nav mesh for ANY changes to take affect. I spent several hours trying to fix a problem, before i realized none of my changes affected anything because I never updated the nav mesh

 

[GreenLemon]

ok, i regenerate nav, analyze it, split nave face, still dont work

i tried this and that still not work
this time the nav_avoid are te same size of the nav face below it ...

 

[Freyja]

I would make it slightly bigger than it needs to be maybe by 8 or 16 units in every direction and sink it into the ground a bit just to make sure it covers the cells

 

[Yabayabayaba]

yes, cover the entire path you want to block, all the way to its end, that way you can't airblast bots past the nav avoid, where they would ignore it. you want avoids like these if possible

 

[GreenLemon]

i have no clue what i done wrong ...
someone test it plz ??

 

[Yabayabayaba]

I can't fix your problem, but you have a few other issues. 1) robots can access player spawn 2)players spawn at hatch 3) Your first wave seems HUGE until i realized the entire wave spawns at once, no players could ever with 4) several consecutive right angles in same direction+small path clumps robots together 5) there are so many robots they would clump anyway 5) consider upping starting cash, 600 is basically nothing

 

[GreenLemon]

this map and popfile is only for me to test faster, i use "tf_damage_multiplier_blue 100" and "budha"
i build this because its faster to open compile ...

its basically a test template

and the nav_avoid still not work

 

[GreenLemon]

this is realy pissing me out ...

 

[UKCS-Alias]

I can't fix your problem, but you have a few other issues. 1) robots can access player spawn 2)players spawn at hatch 3) Your first wave seems HUGE until i realized the entire wave spawns at once, no players could ever with 4) several consecutive right angles in same direction+small path clumps robots together 5) there are so many robots they would clump anyway 5) consider upping starting cash, 600 is basically nothing

3 and 5: There is a limit where only 22 bots can spawn at once. This forces certain wavespawns in a delay.
6: 600 start cash is fine. Its that the bigrock and 2cities missions made people lazy into thinking about upgrading only the essential. Lower start cash also makes missions harder and more interesting (you cant survive any hit so the bots that spawn matter more). Upping the cash (or reducing it) is at most a last resort of tweaking. When designing a mission, low starting cash is better. And anything between 400 and 800 is fine depending on the map lenght (longer maps often want some extra cash like 600 to allow you to take 2 damage reducing upgrades). Anything above 800 is starting to reach the 2 cities state where players start out too strong. Higher cash also tends to aim to making a wave 'spammy', they can survive nearly everything at the end, and most wont have any clue on how to counter it except spamming.

But i found the problem in the map:
func_nav_avoid works by checking the tags on bots. When not supplying any tag they will never even look at the avoid. Empty does not mean a wildcard. To make the bomber listen you need to put in the 'bomb_carrier' tag in the avoid entity. For common bots the 'common' tag is required. If you click on the entity it gives some hints on which tags are accepted by default. And you can even make up your own tags which can be provided in the popfile themselve.

 

[GreenLemon]

first thaks you so much !!! i'll give you sandwich if i can

and i saied earlier that this map is only for fast testing an is not serious at all
when testing this i use "buha" "tf_damage_multiplier_blue 100" "addcond 66" and other cheat

and when something work i use this map as a template

 

[LeSwordfish]

But i found the problem in the map:
func_nav_avoid works by checking the tags on bots. When not supplying any tag they will never even look at the avoid. Empty does not mean a wildcard. To make the bomber listen you need to put in the 'bomb_carrier' tag in the avoid entity. For common bots the 'common' tag is required. If you click on the entity it gives some hints on which tags are accepted by default. And you can even make up your own tags which can be provided in the popfile themselve.

What tags should I use if I want to make all bots avoid it? Would "common" do?

 

[GreenLemon]

in most of valve map they used "common bomb_carrier" maybe common is all bot that don't carry , and bom_carrier is a bot that carry

that way i think this tags target all bot

 

[UKCS-Alias]

in most of valve map they used "common bomb_carrier" maybe common is all bot that don't carry , and bom_carrier is a bot that carry

common combined with bomb_carrier ensures no bots will go there. But do keep in mind that rejecting common bots can in some cases allow for an exploit when a player can stand in a region a bot never will try to move to. (i would keep it to deathpits only).

I have never tested the common tag seperately in a way that i know a bomber will be able to take that path. But it sounds very logical for valve to also deny a bomber there since otherwise a dropped bomb would become unreachable. Doing both is simply the safest way.