Map Design Theory problem

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by zornor, Feb 2, 2009.

  1. zornor

    zornor L4: Comfortable Member

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    Maker of that "Abyss Illusion" thread here, on the same map :unsure:

    I make up the design of maps by winging it, tweaking things as I go along. Of course I make a really loose plan but yeah. This obviously introduces some problems. One of such seems to be a rather common one; the sniper's advantage in an open map.

    As of now, a sniper who is basically like 80% of the (current) map away can snipe away at the BLU spawn, which you can see in the picture.

    [​IMG]

    The solution is easy; put a big block there. However I'm out of ideas on how to make it;

    a) make sense
    b) look good
    c) make it easy to implement without excessive modification

    Any ideas? :p

    EDIT: Oh and as a side question, how do you get rid of those stupid cart track shadows?
     
  2. zpqrei

    aa zpqrei Theme Changer Extraordinaire

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    You could add a silo or make it so that RED snipers can't get to that spot. You could re-work the track so that is goes to the left and then make more silos (on the right) so they cover the spot.

    For the tracks, highlight 'em all -> Properties (Alt+Enter) -> Disable shadows.
     
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  3. zornor

    zornor L4: Comfortable Member

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    I should have drawn on the picture what I wanted :p

    The left passage (no not the far left, that's the abyss; the one under the conveyer) should be open, while still having something above to protect it. A silo is a good idea but it'd block the passage.

    +Thanks for the tracks solution.
     
  4. TMP

    aa TMP Abuser of Site Rules

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    I think I know a solution. Move the red container over towards the other building, stack another on top of it, and then maybe add in another container near the truck.

    EDIT: Also, move the pipe up and clip it.
     
  5. zornor

    zornor L4: Comfortable Member

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    that sounds like a nice idea. also, which pipe?
     
  6. drunkie

    drunkie L1: Registered

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    [​IMG]

    Something like this?
     
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  7. zornor

    zornor L4: Comfortable Member

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    that's perfect, drunkie. thanks for taking the time to illustrate it too :p
     
  8. drunkie

    drunkie L1: Registered

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    Np buddeh :D Make sure to show the screen of the change. Also it would help to have this area seen in multiple angles so people can get more of a feel of the challenge in front of you.
     
  9. zornor

    zornor L4: Comfortable Member

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    that's true, but maybe the less fortunate wouldn't have liked to be drowned in a swarm of 100kb pictures :O

    I'm making the changes as I post. EDIT: Don't hold your breath. :closedeyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  10. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    A sniping view of the spawn isn't necessarily a bad thing (look at official maps), just make sure no one can snipe the spawn points themselves, and there's at least one other exit (preferably covered).
     
  11. zornor

    zornor L4: Comfortable Member

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    well you can't snipe the actual spawn room without being really close and obvious (the spawn room layout resembles goldrush), so i did well there. The problem is more in that the area is gigantic and snipers have huge advantages except vs other snipers and possibly soldiers.
     
  12. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    Just keep it the same or less than the first point in dustbowl and you should be okay :)
     
  13. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    I think drunkie's idea is pretty good there. But I might offset the doors he drew. So pllayers zig-zag through instead of straight shot. And the thing on the right could be alot taller.

    But don't make it make too much sense ;) that's part of valve maps comic appeal. Nobody would actually build like they do, but they look great in game.

    -----------
    As far as how you design.
    I think it's best to follow your own work flow.

    Some people draw stuff out and really pin it down before they open Hammer. Personally I can do a little bit of concept stuff on paper but not too much.

    I like to open hammer and start throwing stuff together. I'll throw in a player start for ref then just block it out with cubes, cordon, run around in game and try to get a better feel.

    Then I go back and replace the cubes with terrain. Sometimes that gets redone. Sometimes I detail then go back and optimize.

    Sloppy I know, but that's how I like to work. I've tried to work cleaner and more organized but somehow that seems to kill it a bit for me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  14. zornor

    zornor L4: Comfortable Member

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    I made the changes. But i started experimenting with area portals. After fixing all the leaks (pointfile just points to the top skybox brush from one of the area portals) and changing all the portals between Open/Closed none of them work properly. If I put them on Open/Closed they always appear to be closed whenever I look into the sealed room (nothing in the room renders; likewise when I go inside, and most of everything outside ceases to render).

    This is an ideal time for photobucket to go down, and I don't really want to host anywhere else, so it's the description for now :(

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/zornor/abyss50001.jpg
    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/zornor/abyss50000.jpg

    There we go. Also yes I turned off lights, and forgot to resize the second one :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  15. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    Well you obviously have a leak. Area portals do that with leaks.

    Check that top skybox brush, maybe you accidentally tied it to func_detail in which case the leak would be the whole are so it'll point to the middle of it.
     
  16. zornor

    zornor L4: Comfortable Member

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    Looks like it WAS a leak. A tiny, 0.1 unit sized one. Screw you, Hammer!

    Fixed all the leaks until Load Pointfile couldn't find a default anymore and it works. Will post screenshots when I finish school for the day.
     
  17. zornor

    zornor L4: Comfortable Member

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    I guess this warrants a new post. Here's the final product cause drunkie wanted to see

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    Yeah, that's looking really good.

    Put a couple sheet metal pieces by the corners of those posts to close that up a bit more. please :D