If it were you guys who were developing, how would you improve 2Fort?

[ryodoan]

How does 2fort even have that many stalemates when the map doesn't even HAVE a round timer by default? o_0

I know some of those are due to servers modding a timer in, but still...

Are you delibrately ignoring the facts though? Lets analyze the statistics. I thought they spoke for themselves, but apparently not.

1. When does stalemate occur? When the servers map limit timer expires before the map finishes playing. Most servers have several rules in place for map changes: Changes after 3 wins by either team, changes after 30 minutes automatically. So, a server can complete two rounds of 2fort in say 23 minutes, then the server starts up a new roudn with 7 minutes left, nobody wins, ala stalemate.
2. There are only 4 valve maps capable of ending in stalemate: cp_badlands, cp_granary, cp_well, and ctf_2fort. Of these, cp_well and cp_granary both have higher rates of stalemates, next we have 2fort, then finally cp_badlands. Of all the stalemates only cp_badlands has less than 2fort.

 

[Brandished]

Are you delibrately ignoring the facts though?

1. When does stalemate occur? When the servers map limit timer expires before the map finishes playing. Most servers have several rules in place for map changes: Changes after 3 wins by either team, changes after 30 minutes automatically. So, a server can complete two rounds of 2fort in say 23 minutes, then the server starts up a new roudn with 7 minutes left, nobody wins, ala stalemate.

1. 
   
   I didn't know map changes in the middle of a round counted as stalemates. It still doesn't make any sense to me the way you explain it, though. For Valve to include information like that they could be counting a 30 second or 1 minute partial round as a stalemate as well. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
   
   Do you have a link to said facts that I'm deliberately ignoring, where Valve explains what causes a stalemate and what not? It could be complete ignorance on my part, or a failure at using the right search engine keywords, but I've yet to find a detailed guide on TF2 that Valve itself has produced.

 

[Foreverkul]

Those towers in the background? I would allow you to go in them, and the intel would be at almost the top (which you can jump out of).
The water would be longer and there would be 2 bridges.
The current intel room in the basement would be the main spawn room and the old main spawn room would be more space (and roof access)
The resupply room i the basement would be an elevator or stairs to outside (roof)
I would also add more packs.

 

[ryodoan]

I didn't know map changes in the middle of a round counted as stalemates. It still doesn't make any sense to me the way you explain it, though. For Valve to include information like that they could be counting a 30 second or 1 minute partial round as a stalemate as well. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Do you have a link to said facts that I'm deliberately ignoring, where Valve explains what causes a stalemate and what not? It could be complete ignorance on my part, or a failure at using the right search engine keywords, but I've yet to find a detailed guide on TF2 that Valve itself has produced.

Sorry I came off as a douche I did not really think before replying and now I feel kinda like an arse hole... :blushing:

I just think that its kinda BS that everyone says "CTF always ends in a stalemate" when the fact is that your much more likely to have a stalemate in well or granary.

 

[Brandished]

No problem, but I was serious about that info-link, if there is one, please share. I may not be the brightest bulb, but if I'm having trouble finding info on their stuff, I don't doubt that there are countless others as well. I just found out yesterday that the spy's sapper displays a damage meter for the object it's placed on, I don't even want to admit the amount of playtime I have on the spy having overlooked this, lol.

With the amount of hours Valve has invested into making their games, I would think they would want to make it easy for people to know about all the features they added and how to use them. I've even emailed Gabe about this.

 

[Brandished]

Hmmm....

4-26-2008,

Like, take the 2Fort that exists as it is now. What would you like to see done with it?
Inquiring minds wish to know.

04-26-2008

well the biggest problem i find with 2 fort on a public server
- complete lack of health and ammo packs - except for the sewer

04-27-2008

Only thing I can think of would be the health packs, I hate constantly having to use the sewer route because thats the only place on the entire map I can heal without a medic.

04-29-2008

Team Fortress 2 Update Released
2Fort
* Added medium ammo and health to basement hallways
* Added small ammo and health to top of spiral

You wouldn't happen to live near Bellevue, Washington by chance, would you?


Anyways, here's my review-

I do agree that 2fort is very well polished, I still think it's one of Valve's best looking TF2 maps, but I don't really enjoy playing the map anymore. Part of this might be because I've played the map a lot and have burned myself out on it, but there's a few issues that stick out in my mind:


* All but 3 classes are forced to pass through the same 2 chocke points that are right next to each other on route to the intel. First through the lower area of the base that leads out to the bridge and then through the open area with the cow and two sets of stairs. I've seen single and even double ubers rushes fail to break through these 2 spots many times.

* The alternate route, over top of the bridge, isn't too great either. Unless you're a scout you'll be down to half your life by the time you reach the enemy base and when you do there's a nice chocke point waiting for you on the other side. There are no resupply items on the way, either.

* Both of the routes mentioned above can also be protected by a single sentry gun as well. Narrow pathways make for easy area denial, it's very difficult for even a cloaked spy to reach the intel without bumping into someone, giving himself away.

*The chockepoints by themselves might not be too bad, but the fact that ALL 3 are within a 3 to 5 second walking distance from the enemy spawn compounds the problem. It is extremely easy for the enemy team to rebuild/re-man whatever defenses your team might have been able to clear out.

Due to the reasons listed above, I find that scoring in this map starts to become almost impossibly difficult (assuming a team isn't stacked) when there are more then 12 ~ 16 players on a server who know the map well. This is not too uncommon on the pubs. This brings me to my other issue with the map:

* No round timer. Most of the servers currently running the map have either a 30+ minute map time or are the dreaded no map time servers, mainly the 24/7 2fort servers, you know the ones.... After turtling 30+ minutes in a round were neither team has scored more then 1 point, I want to pull my hair out thinking "WILL THIS EVER END??!!!111". Entering sudden-death mode during a round like this would be a breath of fresh air.