I think we could try making a type of themed community updates again, and I wanna explain why

[ZincWolfWarrior]

I just want to say in advance that I'm not the most knowledgeable in all these subject, so if I got anything wrong or misunderstood something I mentioned here, I just wanna apologize for that.
I also don't if this isn't something appropriate to post here, I was told that this would be a good place to share this, so if it isnt I apologize for that aswell.
This is just somethin that's been floating around in my head for a little bit, and I just wanted to get it out there.


With the current position TF2 is in right now, I believe that if we can get some community organization we can come up with a brand new themed community update, but not in the same way of old community updates (talk about that later)

now, I know what your thinking: "But don't you remember what happened the last time we tried that? and the time before that, and the time before THAT?"
Yes, it is true that community updates have a troubled history, with many projects such as Frontline, the Mayann Project (kinda), and Iron Gauntlet never coming to fruition.
and with the updates that did happen, they were either incredibly underwhelming (Robotic Boogaloo), had troubled development and was overhyped to all hell (End of the Line), and was received fairly well but ended up ruining community updates because of drama (Invasion).
We would try to make something, but Valve either didn't want it or changed and intruded on the original vision, or we would end up hyping it up to the point of disappointment, or both.

however, that was all a long time ago, Invasion came out 8 years ago!
things have changed, Valve has proven that they are willing to branch out and try more things, I.E Vscript and Vs. Saxton Hale.
They added Vscript to their servers to allow map makers to be more flexible and be more creative, and then added a brand new gamemode into casual for the first time in a decade, and one that has been in the community for years no less!

And when it comes to theming, we have to go no further than the Blog Post announcing the Summer Update: "Make sure to get your submissions into the Steam Workshop by May 1st, so they can be considered for this as-yet-unnamed, un-themed, but still very exciting summer-situated (but not summer-themed) (unless you wanted to develop summer-themed stuff) update."

That's right, coming from valve themselves, they admitted they would be willing to accept quote: "themed stuff".
Now, this doesn't necessarily mean we would get new weapons or campaigns and the like.
However, that does mean we can make whatever themed cosmetics and warpaints and maps we want!

I believe we could even give this a try with Scream Fortress and Smissmas.
Maybe for Scream Fortress we could produce Apocalypses themed maps, Zombie, Nuclear, End of the World type stuff, and call it the "Screamageddon Update."
Or with Smissmas we could produce general winter maps with "lunar" elements to them, where maybe a bunch of meteors landed on earth, and a buncha weird space esc type stuff happens to the environment around it, and call it the "Lunar-New Year Update."
And with Summer, we could do anything! We could do sci-fi, Medieval, abstract whatever- We could even attempt to bring back old projects like Frontline to some extent.
And with the help of Vscript, all of this would be easier and better than ever before!

And when I say "Community Themed Update," I don't necessarily mean like how the older ones were produced.
With those, there was major collaborating with the update team and Valve themselves (and we all know how that went).
I'm not implying we try something like that, because we all know that at this time theres no way Valve would want to do that.
no, what I think is maybe spread the word across the workshopping community, and come up with a theme for people to follow if they want.
Then, if enough people made stuff following that theme, they could label it under the (blank) Update collection and upload it to the Workshop.
Maybe do a mapping competition like what was done for Invasion (simply just as a thing to bring attention and stuff to the project, not necessarily for like- "The winners get to submit there maps for the update!" no, that's dumb").
and maybe something similar for the items like last years Gertrude's Gallery of Garments contest for Scream Fortress.

And I believe this could all work because Valve clearly has no interest in developing anything new for this game, and they gave us the tools and freedom to make whatever we want, and has proven they will accept new themes and concepts.
They have also shown that they are giving TF2 at least a slight bit more attention now, noting the blog post and the summer themed promotional material on Steam (not that this really means that much, but it's still worth noting).
We are fully capable of pulling something like this off; we just need the proper planning, organization, and care that we would put into any other community project.
We want themed updates, we want something refreshing, and we want to escape TF2's Dark Age and into a new Renaissance. enough time has passed, and the stars are beginning to align, so why don't we give this another shot?

 

[Egan]

This post is large, and it's hard to tell what are the important points of it, and how to reply to it. I think certainly there are some things that could be created with vscript to add thematic elements to maps.

Frontline even had a several scripted mechanics: the explosive barrels, the payload cart tank that could shoot at things in the map, or the health/ammo kits that parachuted into the play space.

I'd be weary to add more overhead to a themed update because of the past issues. "Maybe do a mapping competition like what was done for Invasion". To simply say "enough time has passed" that those issues wouldn't happen again, doesn't sound realistic to me.

Making content for the existing Halloween / Summer / Smissmas, and tying in other themes (medieval, robotic) is good for any creation.
Starting up a new pack like Frontline is a lot of work, but it can be done given enough initiative, as you describe "proper planning, organization, and care".

 

[ZincWolfWarrior]

This post is large, and it's hard to tell what are the important points of it, and how to reply to it. I think certainly there are some things that could be created with vscript to add thematic elements to maps.

Frontline even had a several scripted mechanics: the explosive barrels, the payload cart tank that could shoot at things in the map, or the health/ammo kits that parachuted into the play space.

I'd be weary to add more overhead to a themed update because of the past issues. "Maybe do a mapping competition like what was done for Invasion". To simply say "enough time has passed" that those issues wouldn't happen again, doesn't sound realistic to me.

Making content for the existing Halloween / Summer / Smissmas, and tying in other themes (medieval, robotic) is good for any creation.
Starting up a new pack like Frontline is a lot of work, but it can be done given enough initiative, as you describe "proper planning, organization, and care".

Like I said, I am not the most knowledgeable in all these subjects. I'll admit that I am fairly new to the game, only playing for about over a year. I've been a casual fan for much longer though, but wasn't aware of all the details and drama going on behind the scene (mostly cuz I wasn't able to play it). I am also fairly new to map creation, so I am not fully aware of how much planning goes into projects like this aswell. I just recently have been noticing some things that might open up some opportunities for the community to try new/revisit old ideas, such as the modern foreign concept that are community themed updates.

also, I would just like to say thanks for responding and actually saying something worthwhile! It's pleasant to see someone who gives legit comments

 

[Tiftid]

I think an idea like that could definitely have potential.
The main hurdle would be proving to Valve that it would sell.
I suspect the main reason the Festival (summer update) happened at all was cause community mappers had been asking Valve to do it for months, and after Crash's video they saw clear, undeniable proof that there was interest.
Similarly, VSH absolutely blew up the workshop when it came out, so Valve knew that it was going to be a must-have inclusion for the popularity of their update.

And obviously, even before proving anything to Valve, there's a hurdle in simply gauging interest among community members, to see if there's a good crop of people willing to develop for the theme.

I also think that the idea of a community update is met with much hype from players, but much scepticism from higher-up community members, a.k.a the people you'd want to have working on the damn thing.
Ideally, we would find a new planning method that would let us get a team together without it falling prey to the issues that plagued former projects, such as:

• Greed/abuse of power (Invasion, as the rumours say)
• Failure to guarantee that the assets people pour their love into will actually be used (Snowplow and a lot of other stuff to do with EOTL)
• Limited instruction on art direction for end users (Frontline; I personally think the Frontline SFM looks awesome but not much of that really ended up being captured in the maps made for the pack)

This is just my two cents, but:
To solve these, I think a good planning method would be one that constantly checks back with the wider community, like weekly polls where the team shows off all the new content they've made for the pack and the community votes on each individual item for a few criteria:

• Does this asset look good?
• Can I see myself using this asset in a map that matches this pack's theme?
• Can I see myself using this asset in a map that doesn't match this pack's theme?

Ideally, each week would also have a separate poll for the pack assets from former weeks, so the team can watch trends in these factors as the hype over it being a new asset for an awesome new theme slowly dies down.

This method would ensure a few things:

• Awesome assets that the community would love don't get unfairly cut from the pack by higher-ups
• The team constantly knows what percentage of people would use an asset and how useful it'd be to people who don't specifically want to develop a map for their theme
• The team has a vague understanding of how the community sees the theme by tracking which assets have the lowest percentage of people who'd use them in maps with the theme

These polls would ideally be hosted on some standalone website (even a Google Form would be good enough) and posted in many different communities, to get as small of a sample bias as possible.

The polls could also include the pack's concept art/moodboards, with different criteria:

• Does this art look good?
• Can I see myself wanting to develop a map with this theme?
• [OPTIONAL] If not, what are some theme(s) I would prefer to develop for?

Overall, I'm not keen about the idea of outsourcing asset creation to the wider community, but the team could encourage people to create whatever assets from the concept art haven't been created yet, and then create an extra poll for content made by the wider community.
This would also make it a pseudo-contest, where if multiple people build an asset for the same concept, there's a clear, fair method for choosing which one should ultimately be included.
You might think that a sign-up method where individual people "claim" an asset and no one else can do it would be better for ensuring that no work is wasted and no feelings are hurt, and that may be true, but the pseudo-contest has the distinct advantage of ensuring evolution through competition - an asset won't get a free pass just because it's the only asset which has executed that one concept.

Also, while I'm here cashing in my two cents, what I would personally love to see is a Halloween pack (for 2024, obviously) that, instead of focusing on mixing in other themes or individual creative map concepts, focuses on creating or collecting concept art for the base Halloween theme and deciding what it should be. Should it be gothic and atmospheric? Should it be silly and trick-or-treaty? The answer is - whatever lets us create an environment art concept that 90-95% of people agree looks amazing!
I think that even if the pack itself was a total failure, a stronger definition of the Halloween theme than "dark Payload map with occasional weird purple/green tinted light" would go a long way towards ensuring the quality of future maps.