Grinder (CP)

[Phobos]

I've always wondered why the layout/capping mechanic of Desertfortress isn't used in more maps. I'm glad that you give it a try. I'm not going to comment on the obvious similarities between Grinder and Gravel Pit (A and B)/Badlands (HQ), it has been pointed out and you already stated that they're subject to change.

Okay, my impressions/suggestions:

-The cap times on A and B are long, C is very short. Maybe you should reconsider your opinion about the length of the cap time. Once both points have been taken by a team (meaning they get reduced respawn time), the opposing team has to defend their HQ cap (with this brutally short cap time - no room for error) while they have to endure the long cap time on A/B (all with increased respawn time).

I can see that once A and B are lost, one team will simply fortify their position to force a stalemate.

If it was the other way round (long HQ cap, shorter A/B), the "defending" team gets a chance to start a counter attack and force the "attacking" team to defend A and B, otherwise they lose their chance to cap the HQ. More dynamic fighting, more options.

-The tunnel between A and B is a good place to be filled with water. Underwater combat happens nowhere in TF2, it would be something new. Not to speak of pyro/heavy players still wanting to get their underwater achievements. Downside to this is that water slows you down. Probably not so good if you want this map to be played competitively.

-Maybe add a tunnel from each base to the A to B tunnel. It could function as a stealth route for scouts/spies to ninja re-cap a point taken by the other team. (You could even have a bit of Well in your map if you fill it with water )

-The drop down vent to A is a nice idea, it somehow feels out of place. I think it is too close to the regular exit to A.

 

[Icarus]

The short cap times on the HQs are necessary. I believe the final control point must be designed in a way to make turtling very difficult. If a long cap time was used, one would have to completely wipe out the enemy before it could be captured. A and B Cap times are subject to change, but I wanted to use GP's cap times as a starting point.

I'm worried about adding any more routes, because the map is already very open with plenty of routes. I hate playing "Behind you!' all the time, something I've been seeing in a lot of custom maps.

Although I agree about the dropdown on A. It's probably the area where I'm worried about the most. I'm afraid it may become impossible to get out if the enemy camps around it.

I still don't get how the HQs are anything like Badlands. I bet if I removed just that elevator prop, it would look completely different.

 

[Phobos]

The short cap times on the HQs are necessary. I believe the final control point must be designed in a way to make turtling very difficult. If a long cap time was used, one would have to completely wipe out the enemy before it could be captured. A and B Cap times are subject to change, but I wanted to use GP's cap times as a starting point.

That's true, turtling should be discouraged. Actually, it was a bit foolish of me to make comments on the capping time without any real game test.

About the Badlands thing: I meant the spawn including the HQ cp. It isn't just the elevator tube prop. The whole arrangement of the HQ cap made me immediately think of Badlands. And that's not a bad thing. I just thought that you also took Badlands as a source of inspiration.

Isn't the layout similar?

 

[Big Lou]

lol, it's basically gravel-lands... er, bad-pit? Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that... but I'd like to see a bit more originality.

 

[Icarus]

lol I guess it does.

It's actually the old layout for the last CPs for Waste... before I decided it was too large for the already large map.

But if you think about it.. it's totally different. Badlands, most of the time you will be attacking from the first floor from all sides. In Grinder, you start on top and center and must descend into a pit to capture it.

I hope the detailing will make it look less Badlands.

 

[Icarus]

Gameday February 28th Bump

 

[Fearlezz]

Alright well, this was much fun, the only problem I had with it was that it was alot to walk as a soldier or heavy, so I went with scout each time.

 

[Apom]

In our game situation, the blue team was steamrolling the red one, so we saw 5 wins in half an hour. I fear that in a more balanced game, it would endlessly stalemate because possession of the intermediate points would alternate between the teams. It's impossible to both defend A and attack B (or the opposite), because if the enemy teams concentrates its efforts on either of the two then they are guaranteed to win it, even if it means losing the other.

But, this is somewhat theoretical so only extended gameplay will tell.

 

[cornontheCoD]

cool idea. It seems to work well, as we didn't have a single stalemate the whole gameday

keep up the good work.

 

[KarmaKaze]

I really liked this one. The layout is great...easy to understand where to go. I never got lost. The only thing I think I would change would be the capping time of C. I would just add a little time to it.

 

[Nineaxis]

A and B are way too Gravelpit-like. The cap buildings themselves are almost literally the same.

I'd make the HQ CP cap times longer though, it didn't seem like anyone could successfully defend the HQ point because it only took one person to get on it to win.

 

[MrAlBobo]

A and B are way too Gravelpit-like. The cap buildings themselves are almost literally the same.

yeah...im really going to have to agree with this, I mean when it reaches the point where I need health and immediately know where to look based on playing gravelpit...thats a bit too similar

 

[Icarus]

Thanks everyone.

I'll work on it for A2, but don't expect a complete redo

Gameday was extremely fun

 

[kankle_king]

Wow! What a great idea, are you sure you don't work for Valve? I am so excited, you've given us 2 Valve quality maps already, and this looks well on its way to live up to the Icarus name. Keep us posted and msg me if you need any playtesting.
steam id : b_myne

 

[Icarus]

Grinder (CP) (Gravel Pit Remix!)
Alpha 2
by Eric "Icarus" Wong
Download from TF2Maps

Release notes for Alpha 2:
-Reduced respawn time awarded for each cap
-Minor adjustments to A and B
-Replaced some signs with new textures included in the Scout Pack
-Few bug fixes

 

[Icarus]

Gameday Bump

I thought it went very well.

I might make the HQ caps a second shorter, though

 

[Ida]

This was very fun! The fact that it's always so hectic because one or two of your points are always in danger of being capped, is great.

I dunno what to say for balance, really... it works like Gravel Pit, which means everything works very well. Well, I can say that I agree when it comes to shortening the cap times of the HQ.

I still think you should have gone for a custom design, but I don't expect to be able to convince you now.

 

[Chilly]

My only recommendation for this map would be to add one or two additional metal packs at A and B, which would allow engineers to build at them faster. I think engineers are the key to winning this, since they allow your team to partially ignore one of the control points. Making it easier for them would result in less back and forth of A/B and have it more likely that the map would end.

 

[KarmaKaze]

I am of the opposite opinion on the cap time to HQ. I think today's time was perfect. We had some battles around that for the wins...very cool. If you shorten it then I don't think the fighting will be as good.

I really enjoyed this one too. The constant battling for A and B was great.
Now texture this thing up and lets see what it is really supposed to look like.

 

[Phobos]

I still think you should have gone for a custom design, but I don't expect to be able to convince you now.

Give it time. Icarus said about the layout:

It's a starting point, yes

I just wanted to see how it would play as it is.

I think the map is still very far away from the final layout. No one wants the map to be known as "the Gravel Pit clone".