First map, looking for help with point area design (KoTH) and eventually some very early feedback

[JAZZ COMMANDO]

Hey everyone! First post on this forum, I finally decided to tackle hammer and try my hand at map design/map making.

I'm making a koth map (which I now slightly regret seeing as they seem to be the most popular maps for beginner, hope the forum isn't too saturated with them), and I got to the point where I'm pretty happy with the spawn area and courtyards, with varied heights, no busted sightlines, mix of interior/exterior environments, and what seems to be decent scaling.

However, I don't really want my map to be yet another viaduct clone and since what I have right now is kinda viaduct-y already, I feel like the point area is what could make the difference.

My main questions are, should I go straight into the point like in the attached screenshots or add another courtyard before? Walk time to the point is about 16 secs for a heavy. I'm also not sure what to do with the building right before the point, I'm afraid it would end up being too open.

But of course any input about this design is greatly appreciated, especially if there are any glaring flaws.

Thank you everyone!

(By the way, those weird slanted routes are placeholders, I know they look like hot trash at the moment and I am planning on replacing them with some sort of more natural looking cliff/dirt path/whatever while keeping the same angles as to limit sightlines)

 

[its_hi]

There's always the TF2Maps' discord's bot channel, which allows you to queue your map for a playtest, but if you want to play it more privately first due to how you mentioned Early Feedback. Once your map's bsp file is ready, I can try to host your map on my server and we play it together a bit. It's hard to judge based on pictures alone.

 

[Tiftid]

"Viaduct lobby with a unique control point" is a setup that's worked well in the past.
Typically you want to aim for 12 seconds from spawn to the point as engineer, so 16 seconds as heavy sounds just right.

You seem to be doing a good job of blocking sightlines, but try not to do too good. Ideally, a sniper main will be able to find a strong position on your map that lets them have lots of fun - this just needs to not come at the expense of the other classes' fun.
A good way to achieve this is to have one strong sniper sightline, and use your alternate routes as methods of reaching the point without ever intersecting that sightline.

 

[JAZZ COMMANDO]

A good way to achieve this is to have one strong sniper sightline, and use your alternate routes as methods of reaching the point without ever intersecting that sightline.

That's a good idea, I was actually afraid of going overboard in that department and just end up neutering snipers. Also glad to hear that the unique point idea is a valid route ! Now the trick would be doing this without making it too gimmicky, lakeside seems to be a good example with the building on the side.

Once your map's bsp file is ready, I can try to host your map on my server and we play it together a bit. It's hard to judge based on pictures alone.

That would be fantastic, thanks for the offer! And yeah right now it's nowhere near playable, I'd hopefully like to have the basic layout mostly done before the first alpha release, to avoid any major restructuring, but that may be inevitable.


Something that crossed my mind for the point is some sort of pit around it with the possibility to go under the actual point, either with a tunnel going through the pit or a bridge, since I like the way maps like highpass and badlands allow you to go under the point. Combining it with a pit would be both visually interesting and hopefully would be fun from a gameplay standpoint too.