Dual payload gamemode concept

Discussion in 'Tutorials & Resources' started by UKCS-Alias, Jan 24, 2012.

  1. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    Well, ever since payload race was released i was already thinking about having blue push 2 carts. Basicly forcing the red team to spread their spam while blue becomes capable of pushing 1 cart. Not only that, only 1 cart has to finish to win the map and not both allowing both to use the same pit. The pit itself isnt in the entity work though, i used the normal midcap.

    So for this i made a short concept:

    Download VMF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2070422/dpl/dpl_concept_a1.vmf
    Download BSP: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2070422/dpl/dpl_concept_a1.bsp

    Known issues:
    - I havent activated the timer yet the entity is there (the entity work was based on ABS' gametype library).
    - The carts show tracks in 2 colors. Im aware its set in the payload watcher but setting both to blue made both tracks show in the blue hud instead of changing the path color. The outline of 1 cart is also red for that same reason.

    Oh, and after posting the topic i noticed the name should say dual instead of duel.
     
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  2. Vengeance

    Vengeance L1: Registered

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    Sounds cool, but.. How far are the two carts. This seems like a nice idea, but its the way its presented.
     
  3. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    Its only an entity concept and im not making a map for it atm and most likely wont do later.

    You basicly have 2 seperate payload tracks similar to all A/D pl maps. Except it uses the plr hud so you can track both and basicly give it a more gravelpit like approach. It also does allow midsections to be added for that same reason allowing the time to be extended. Its basicly plr where 1 team pushes both carts and therefor a small modification to that.

    Im not going to take part in the contest but if someone was thinking about making such map i could have saved them some entity work.
     
  4. English Mobster

    English Mobster L6: Sharp Member

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    If you'd like to get rid of the red glow around the Payload, here's what I discovered by accident:
    If you parent a nonsolid func_brush covered in nodraw to the func_tracktrain of the Payload in question and then parent the cart's prop to THAT, the glow will disappear entirely.
    One could then re-add the glow using intel as I found in this thread. In THEORY (I have not tried this, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work), you could parent a BLU Intel to the func_brush (which is in turn parented to the func_tracktrain), and then parent the cart prop to THAT in order to restore the blue glow. This means there can be no collision on the cart, however, meaning you would need to make it a prop_dynamic with collision disabled. This, in turn, means the cart won't fall into a pit unless you do it manually (very tricky, as I found).
    The trick I used to get rid of the glow around the intel itself (replacing the intel model with a one-sided prop) wouldn't work in that case. You would need to either find an invisible prop or message Honeymustard for his. Keep in mind I have no idea how stable this is or if it will work, but it should IN THEORY. I would test it out with the regular intel model first to make sure it works before you go about trying to find an invisible prop.
    You'll still have a RED hud, though. No way around that.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2012
  5. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    Well, even though the red color doesnt suit the team its better than 2 similar colors for both carts. The reason is that its important to know which cart is which on the hud. That might not be an issue for people who played the map many times but for people who play it less often 2 diffirent colors seemed better to me.

    And even then, it has some tactical advantages to get 2 diffirent colors. now you can say 'go to the red cart' which you would lose if both were a similar blue color. Idealy would be that there is a light and dark color for blue. As then you can say dark or light cart.
    And that is exactly the reason i decided to keep it this way.
     
  6. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    Sorry to necro this, but I'd love to make a map with this concept (and want your permission) and the vmf just takes me to a page of code. Do I just need to shove it into a notepad and rename?

    EDIT: Yeah that worked. Just a heads up: has anyone else attempted this? Are there design problems I should know about?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  7. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    Cool - thanks for doing this - I was just working on something similar and you've taken a lot of the work out.

    Since you've done some work already...I'd like an A+B=C logic either for the win or to disable both carts and to activate something else. Any ideas on how I get it to do the A+B=C logic?

    Edit: Currently the map finishes in a win if either cart gets to the end - I need the ABC thing above.

    However, some coding just popped into my head - I may have the work around.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
  8. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    Im not going to edit the concept. It was a quick mockup on how it can be done and only ment for assisting others. But ofcourse i can give a hint.

    I dont think the hud can dynamicly change midround.
    If you can then its easy as you just set the C cart on and disable both A and B. This could require 4 watchers (1 for A, 1 for B, 2 for C to indicate the progress being equal - or maybe the 2nd one can be hidden entirely).
    If you cant then it probably would have to be both on the same path. This can provide issues since the distance between the A end and C start would be visible. As workarround you might replicate the lenght of the path (including its rollbacks) below the map with an invisible cart. The distance should be kept equaly that way. But its an ugly method.

    Instead i would make both A and B just end near C since its most likely going to be the best way of playing (with CP's you can place them further away, but with carts it often ends up quite poorly in the intensity as you suddenly have to go to a completely diffirent cart with a diffirent start).

    Maybe you could even have the 2 carts together as C to also assist into pushing? 1 coming from A and 1 coming from B. It doesnt make you forced to get both carts to the pit but at least gives the option to attack from A or B. By making good placement it might make the push from A or B a bit longer, but if its like gravelpit. once you took A, they barely can take it back so the extra pushing there shouldnt harm as pushing it to the entrance of the gate would still be easy.

    Kinda like:
    [​IMG]
    The A and B paths are long, but easier to perform due to the longer distance from the enemy spawn. The C path is short but obviously features harder defense. And you could still lengthen it.
     
  9. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    Thanks for the feedback - it's my first time using the 2 cart hub so it's a little extra confusing - I don't want to modify the concept all that much either :)

    I was thinking (since I'm not at my computer) -

    Node A (last cap cart 1) - On Pass
    - disable - pushzone, dispenser, last path and current path - disabling the cart altogether
    - disable train? (not sure on this one yet until I try it out
    - Change skin to blue - change it - not cap it (you could sound the cap bell as skin changes giving the impression that the cap has been captured)
    - Send output to X(?)

    Node B (last cap cart 2) - the same as above

    X - the output destination (I haven't done conditional logic in TF2 yet) If a+b=2 then Win for Blue or trigger something else < any ideas on how to do this conditional logic?

    I currently have the paths / map mirrored - they start close together and then finish the near each other (either battle ground can be reached quickly by both teams) at the last battle room (my reactor core). Both carts are bascially going around a big pillar.

    Thinking about it - the 'either cart can win it' might be an interesting approach - if red concentrates too much on one then a spy might be able to sneak the other one in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
  10. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    This, combined with someone's comments on "fixing special delivery" the other day made me think of this treatment for SD :

    >Single payload that goes to one of two destinations (rockets?)
    >The fact it's a payload instead of a flag allows the whole team to affect the objective rather than just one person like current SD
    >The cart recedes instantly (or after 2-5 seconds) and does so quickly so that it's easy for the enemy team to reset and then start the payload down their own track.
    >Two tracks allows the payload to go closer/further from the enemy rather than dead central using a single track
    >Single payload means it has to be reset before a team start their own path to victory rather than the awkward PLR setup that means you have to juggle stopping the enemy while pushing your own cart. Regardless of the current cart position, there is only 1 thing to do (either stop the enemy, or push your cart)
     
  11. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    YM that sounds cool but a little confusing - could you try it again?
     
  12. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Explaining it again? you mean?
     
  13. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    Yes please and I'll put my test results here in this thread.

    I got:

    - the payloads to the end of the tracks without the win happening
    - was able to activate a third payload cart and have the blue glow tranferred over to it

    If anyone knows how I can have a relay get the results - it would be appreciated - that way I can use the relay to trigger everyting else.
     
  14. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    Just in case anyone is following this - I should be able to give you a final result shortly. But here's my progress to date:

    - both carts go start to finish (no win)
    - plr hud resets to zero
    - new third pl cart gets activated
    - blue pushes last cart to victory and both tracks move at the same time for the single cart

    I just have to code the on pass = victory on the last point and double check everything else and I'm done. I will post a link for the vmf when completed - have been really sick the last little lately but will get to it soon.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
  15. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    ok - here's the map / vmf

    http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=5989

    If anyone could look at the coding, I can't figure out how to trigger victory for blue.
    I'm also wonder if there is some way I could tie the two pushzones together.

    edit: ok got the end game victory for blue

    1- name your game rules
    2- add in: on pass > target entity game rules > set winner> 3

    Although I get the voctory thing happening the map does not reset
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2015