CP Dam a3

[[O]]

Those staircases look really horrible. That is way, way too high. Seriously, i think the first opening in the dam is gonna be too high. At that range, damage falloff starts affecting combats, and it becomes hard for anyone to attack up the stairs. since a few soldiers can spam down them constantly.

Thanks for the feedback swordfish. That is actually one of my concerns.

I am hoping that it will be made easier due to the following 2 reasons:

1- there will be access from the staircase directly to the lower levels. So you dont have to go all the way up the dam to get inside. Once inside there is another staircase which you can use to get to the top.

2- those very same opening will be closed on the side that has the upper hand because they would have their water level higher which forces those openings shut. losing team can still mount a defence because their access to C and D are still open. The silver lining of having lost A and B and having your water level 0.

There also is the fact that both sides have equal opportunity as its a symmetrical map.

Designing lots of teleporter friendly areas should help as well.

Does the above explanation help at all? Let me know either way.

As for the ugliness of the stair, yes i know. those are just placeholders to test the whole idea of the map.

I actually need help on stairs. Dont know how they are usually done. Are hey built from scratch like i've done then material added? or are there ready made standard ones?

 

[Seba]

Stairs are usually made by hand; there are too many different situations in which they're used to make prefabs. Try to keep your stairs 8 high and 12 deep, or 8x16, or 8x24, or 8x32. Never ever make 1:1 stairs unless it is absolutely necessary and you've tried to find an alternative for two weeks and have considered airlifts (those can work well but are gimmicky as balls).

I was going to complain about the dynamic water, but it seems you have it all figured out (the person who helped you was probably A Boojum Snark, but he doesn't post on the forums or hang around chat anymore). Even though I haven't played this map, I'd be willing to bet that you have at least a couple of problems with the water or water-related things.

I don't think you should put any buildings on the ground as cover. It does get flooded, after all. An area like this is hard to do right, because it's basically something that is always flat IRL and changing it in any way would most likely look silly (although containers and pipes wouldn't hurt I guess; also consider big concrete debris). Reminds me of what H-Land did with koth_playa: his map is based on literally the flattest place on Earth, but he still made an interesting map out of it. Take a look at it and see what you can pull out.

 

[[O]]

Thanks a lot there Seba. Will take those proportions into consideration.

Will also explore this airlift thing :O !!! Is it the same thing as those water jet tubes (in granary i think it was)?

On a related subject I've measured the time it takes for each class to travel from spawn, across the neautral level of water, and up those crap stairs to B then A.

I've done it both for blue team and red team, just to be sure.

.............blu red

scout B...20s 19s
scout A...25s 25s

soldier B.22s 21s
soldier A.29s 27s

pyro B....18s 18s
pyro A....25s 26s

demo B...20s 19s
demo A...25s 25s

heavy B...23s 21s
heavy A...30s 28s

engie B...18s 17s
engie A...25s 22s

medic B..17s 16s
medic A..23s 21s

sniper B..18s 18s
sniper A..23s 22s

spy B......18s 18s
spy A......24s 23s


I was surprised by the times to be honest. I think they are pretty good. I know many standard maps have longer spawn to action times.

The time, of course decreases, when the water level is higher. Yes I measured it. Heavy [slowest class] for example was meeting the time it takes for average speed classes to reach the top if their side had neutral water.

Time also increases of course if your water level has dropped.

Any feedback on those times???

 

[[O]]

My map type isnt showing on the Showcase thread list or in the first post of my thread.

I've edited the first post and chosen "control point" in the first post and it still doesnt show.

Can any of the moderators help please?

 

[[O]]

Finally got the objective screen done.

The title will be adjusted to match final file name and so will the second image.

Text will be shortened.

 

[[O]]

http://steamcommunity.com/id/azarnas/screenshot/648749446851364868/?tab=friendsonly

 

[Seba]

No official map has any "water jet tubes." Are you thinking of the grain chute dropdowns in Granary?

You might want to smooth out your displacements a bit, those giant spheres inbetween trees look...weird.

 

[[O]]

No official map has any "water jet tubes." Are you thinking of the grain chute dropdowns in Granary?

You might want to smooth out your displacements a bit, those giant spheres inbetween trees look...weird.

Correction i mean CP_WELL. or one of the WELL ones. I could be wrong because when i went back and played it now [2 yrs later] i didn't shoot me forward anywhere.

Anyway, if they never existed on official maps then that makes mine that bit more original LOL.

 

[[O]]

got the stairs from spawn going.

tubes down to the bottom are a possibility in the future, but right now I just want a workable map for testing this weekend.

some people were concerned about being sniped when getting down, so i've put a wall up with a window.

 

[[O]]

Ok so I got a workable map in .vmf as well as a vtf and vmt.

What do I have to do to be able to upload my map to tf2maps?

Would appreciate any help as I'm trying to be ready to jump in for this weekends test.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Alright, ran through the map... Don't have any images really.

A few things you should change:
-Remove the character props, they are not good in gameplay area's since they are can be mistaken for actual players
-The lighting is really dim and yellow indoors. Should be brighter, and less yellow.
-Across each of the points, you have no cover to use whilst on the point.
-Whilst height variation is good, what you have is just really TOOO tall.
-I know the stairs are temp, but you should make them more smoother... if anything, clip them to be ramps.
-On red you have a lot of props and on blu there is barely anything, this should be even on both sides

Thats it for now.

 

[LeSwordfish]

I'm pretty sure cp_dam is taken. You might want to switch it out before submitting to gameday.

 

[[O]]

I'm pretty sure cp_dam is taken. You might want to switch it out before submitting to gameday.

ooh ok.

cp_damn ?

cp_damned ?

 

[evanonline]

man if there's anything I've learned from mapping, it's that there's not enough synonyms for "dam"

 

[[O]]

to be honest i dont think i can change the name for this gameday as quite a few people have downloaded already. but will definitely change it for next time.

 

[Sergis]

i expected there to be some rising water, but didnt really found one. the playerstatues are just dumb tbh. also the middle cp's purpose is not clear enough and their rooms are way too dark and basic. the stairs are rather tedious to traverse up-down and they clip into the dam at some places, becoming very narrow. the open spaces felt way too open. i kinda figured out that one of the cps controls the top bridge to the middle dam, but i have no idea which one was that.

 

[[O]]

i expected there to be some rising water, but didnt really found one. the playerstatues are just dumb tbh. also the middle cp's purpose is not clear enough and their rooms are way too dark and basic. the stairs are rather tedious to traverse up-down and they clip into the dam at some places, becoming very narrow. the open spaces felt way too open. i kinda figured out that one of the cps controls the top bridge to the middle dam, but i have no idea which one was that.

thanks for taking time to put up some feedback sergis.

first of all i really wanted to be there when my map went up, but it seems it was the last one to go up and it was already 3:30 am where i am at by the time i left. a million maps came before me so i couldnt stay awake.

i wanted to be able to explain to a few people on voice just how the map works. listening to the demo i could see some people actually got it, but didnt realize it.

anyway to answer your questions:

1-the water shouldve worked. i couldnt see on the demo because all i could see was from the spawn room [perhaps im supposed to add cameras or something?].

2-the statues arent statues. i was using them them as placeholders to indicate a place i was designing for that class. i forgot to remove them. noob mistake. its my first map and my first map. sorry everyone.

3- yeah i was advised advised by someone to clip those stairs, but i had already uploaded the map. it will definitely be clipped by next test.

4-yes the bridge is triggered by C. same idea as cp_steel except that each team has a bridge.

Now the bridge isnt the point of the map, its just an extra tool to help. so is the speed tube that takes you from spawn to enemy point E. you unlock the speed tube by winning D for your team.

TO WIN: capture E.

you cant do that if its under several feet of water, so to expose E, you need to bring the water down by capping A AND B, not just one of them.

WHEN you cap A AND B they will lock. other team cannot win them back and can only force a draw by letting time run out before losing E.

By the time the map is done, I will have a digram in each spawn AND near each point inside the dam that shows the map.

I also have an objective screen that explains all, but was probably not shown on gameday.

OVERALL I"M SORRY for the noob mistakes. Its my first map and my first test.

 

[[O]]

I want to thank everyone for their comments, even tho some were not cool.
It is my first map ever and that was my first test. So bear with me.

To summarize what the comments were and what I will be fixing for next time:

1. stairs need clip
   
2. objective is not clear
   
3. player statues to be removed
   
4. spaces are too open.

I will definitely break down those spaces INSIDE the dam. however the E caps will remain as they are but I will provide more cover to run between.

Also will add some signs to help us get through testing.

 

[[O]]

changes

Ok so I've made changes to the map based on feedback from my a1 testing as well as some things I've noticed myself.

The map has been renamed to CP_DAMNED.

The a2 version is now uploaded if anyone wants to have a look. A lot more brushwork has been done as well.


Here is the complete list of changes:

1. Much more health packs have been added
   
2. Also added ammo packs [perhaps too many?]
   
3. I found no problem with the water mechanics as Stevethepocket commented.
   
4. Now that mechanics seem sound a lot of brushwork added for vertical variety and cover at all points except E [for now]
   
5. Stairs have been clipped
   
6. HUD is not missing as many of you confirmed during testing
   
7. Player models have been removed
   
8. A lot more light has been added, though some places intentionally left dark for spies
   
9. Cameras added for dead players and spectators
   
10. Setup time reduced to 30 seconds. Enough to allow players to get closer to clash point when round starts

UPLOAD the latest versions CP_DAMNED_A2 !!! testing soon

 

[[O]]

SCREEN SHOTS of progress from Alpha 1 to Alpha 2:

in general: -- added signage -- more lights -- more brushwork -- some class specific brushwork -- more health and ammo packs

RED SIDE OF DAM

NEW SPAWN BRUSHWORK + PROPS

BLUE SIDE OF DAM WITH SIGNAGE

DYNAMIC BLACKBOARD

CP_B --more lights

CP_C

CP_C --opposite side

CP_D