cp_regato is a symmetrical 5cp inspired in the "2 chokes" design
Set in the italian town of regato, a nice place to stay by the ocean if it weren't infestated by greedy corporations hiding in plain sight, experimenting in the water, mercenaries have been hired to slow down the competition, setting their bases on known temples away from the residential areas, your job is to infiltrate the enemy base through the brook and/or streets to shut down their site of operations
My first (finished) map, feedback is appreciated and a simple "it was fun" helps a lot
ALPHA2:
-fixed forward spawns from breaking when recapturing mid that caused players to spawn on a different room (FINALLY WORKING)
-added unplugged radio on last
-scaled up the water texture
-disabled collisions on second's roof and replaced it with clips for a more realiable walkable surface
-made entrance to mid's flank from brook bigger
-added railing to mid's bridge
-added respawn room visualizers to forward spawns to prevent enemies from entering in case of spawn camping or spontaneous forward spawn logic failure (pain)
-added extra lights on lobby on dark corners
-added func_nobuild triggers above mid's forward spawns
-clipped gap between brush and displacement on streets that caused players to randomly get stuck
-added a func_conveyor on top of the wall between streets and mid so you DON'T. TRY. to stand there
-added patches to the respective ammo and health packs
-added a NEW route to last from lobby, that leads to the defender's high ground
-made windows on second's walls so that attackers can detect if there's a sentry on the point before they commit
-all dev textures with 40 reflectivity are now 30, as of players saying the map is too bright, as well 50 to 40 and 60 to 50
-added block bullets clips on the wooden pergolas on second due to concern from players that you can spawncamp the forward spawn safely through the gaps
-replaced some glass textures with more noticeable ones
-fixed some minor visual bugs
ALPHA3:
-replaced leaves on the wooden pergolas with a more nice ivy model
-func_detailed a lot of complicated geometry
-replaced the funnie func_conveyor with a more intuitive damaging barbed fence
-removed some unnecessary areaportals in mid
-added trees on second for detail
-removed lobby's big shutter to second
-moved some health and ammo pickups from lobby to second
-added pickups on river near mid
-fixed some missaligned brushes
-cutted some arches to fit inside the wall and not overlap to the other brushes, causing to z-fight
-made the water real because being fake, players noticed it was solid
-extended a wall on lobby to block a sightline from second to last
-made the bridge's railing lower
-added some small pickup next to lobby's staircase
ALPHA3A:
-made the water real because by being fake, players noticed it was solid
-extended a wall on lobby to block a sightline from second to last
-made the bridge's railing lower
-added some small pickup next to lobby's staircase
-added a wall next to lobby ramp to seperate it from secret shutter
-removed the P I L L A R S from mid to simplify movement and where to look
-made the blocks next to bridge thiner to prevent hard camp from height to choke
-extended a wall on upper lobby to block height advantage and easy rotating
-textured the bridge
-textured a building
ALPHA 4:
-changed the barbed wires on mid to spikes
-fixed more z-fighting on arches
-fixed gap between some stairs and the floor on last
-toned down all reflective dev texture by 10 (30 to 20, 40 to 30, etc)
-fixed a respawn room visualizer on blu last that could be seen by blu
-radio's speakers are now normal radio speakers and not modern good-sounding speakers
-clipped an out of bounds area
-removed some medium ammo packs that made engineers in second very strong
-made last longer, the point more covered, high ground harder to reach from point and removed secret shutter
-remade the arches on last, top ones from 2 to 1 and lower from 6 to 3
-lobby is now integrated to the far right entrance with a cat-walk and a better ramp
-last now has clothes hanging for detail purposes
-added more lights on closed areas
ALPHA 5:
-fixed overlays not showing
-replaced bridge's texture to show where is the capture zone exactly
-capture point trigger on second doesn't reach the roof anymore
-replaced all indoors dev textures from 20 to 40
-added more lights on lobby
-removed recently added pickups on brook
-removed a small health pickup on last by the main door
-reduced hdr bloom by .1
-increased last's capture point trigger size for capturing
-moved a health kit on second window to lobby
-removed a block bullet abova an arch on second to brook
-- LAST IS BEING REWORKED --
-moved the radio stand to the middle and facing the point with a box and barrels for clarity
-completely removed far right route and reworked it into a balcony with smaller stairs with a wood plank that leads to a dirt concrete patio thing (sorry can't recall name)
-added more cover on far left entrance
-added small entrance to point from left spawn exit
-angled cap point walls so that they aren't ugly rectangles that look like an after thought
-moved the hanged clothes to avoid blocking sight
-added a generator cart for cover and to jump onto the stand roof
ALPHA 6:
-added team colored buildings with detail to show sides
-added walls and cover to minimize sightline into defender's spawn in last
-removed arch entrance to last capture point from spawn
-made a pillar thicker to avoid sightline from far left entrance at lobby to spawn
-added a wall on upper lobby to reduce sniper advantage
-lowered the grass patch on last to allow jumping
-clipped big lobby doors to avoid players standing on top of it
-clipped concrete grass thing on second to allow easy movement
-clipped a wooden plank and box by street's car to jump more consistenly
-moved last spawn points further back alongside resupply cabinets
-added lights on mid's forward spawns
-increased height of skybox at last
-added slanted wall on spawn for rollouts
-added more clips above walls to the skybox to avoid illegal high-ground advantage (hehe)
This are some really smal changes, lowered a wall on second to avoid crouch shooting with safety, added some lights, basic stuff, just going for a retest to have more changes on a8
ALPHA 8:
-STARTED USING BRAND NEW HAMMER++ (awesome)
-added cover on lobby for defenders
-increased range and brightness on lobby's lights
-added fog
-added window on spawn
-added lights on forward spawns
-made wall on second's balcony taller to leave only one exit
-added some textures on mid
-made some barrels blue
-made a bulding on mid taller, specifically the one on flank
-made some sky boxes higher up
-some more changes that I forgot if I made them this version or not
-remade lobby's roof to have bigger windows
-added block lights on brook shutter
-added a plank to gro from street to the top of the gazebo alongside a barrel for cover
-detailed rollout a little bit with glass exhibitions and a door
-added a scafolding on lobby
-made the connector platform on lobby have grates
-added some flags on some places
ALPHA 11
I'm back baybee
-added clips on multiple curbs
-added clips to the scaffolding on lobby
-overall map now brighter
-fog closer
-lobby, mid flank, second's forward spawn, and other dark areas have been lighted up, or the lights have been increased in brightness
-pushed balcony on last outwards, now last is wider
-added a new section on last catwalk, new stair to rotate to lower arches
-changed last's floor from tiles to displacement grass
-added a gravel hill on last for fast access to balcony
-added a flower pot on second's double stairs
-made mid's wooden walls next to river further away from the wall
-reworked some clip brushes
-added A R T
ALPHA 12
-made river flank on mid bigger, moved the archs from the wall, made them bigger and fewer, fixed on of the doors being smaller than the other, made the upper door bigger, added more lights, added stairs to make flanking slower, and added small health pack
-clipped many geometry
-made the windows not solid
-added crates on a corner
-made the ramp to bridge narrower
-made the wall on that ramp lower, to cover people bellow it, but to leave people above it exposed
-removed one of the river poles, and made them have more space between
-made it so you can no longer stand above last spawn room's doors
-made the half wall on upper lobby higher
-optimized multiple brushes, to not overlap each other
-made some lamps dimmer (not the light, but the glow on the prop)
-increased skybox height
-fixed an error where a blockbullet on second was very low and you could splash damage where you shouldn't
I had the chance the other day to look around the map and I wanted to provide some feedback from a 6s perspective - I am by no means an authority on map design or how 6s should be played, but I had a few areas of concern and just general thoughts I wanted to share that I hope prove insightful or helpful.
As a sort of preface - I can't help but compare the general layout of the map to gullywash, and that's not a good or bad thing, but I do think it somewhat important I describe some of the aspects of holding/rotating/sightlines in gullywash that make it viable both ways (to push and defend). I don't want to tell you "do what gullywash does" - If you have an appropriate vision for your map or disagree with anything I said - you are completely free to disregard my (or anyone else's) comments, it is after all YOUR map.
LAST
Starting from last (defenders perspective) - I had to rack my brain REALLY hard to see if I could fashion a hold, the reason I struggled so hard was because there is a sniper sightline from main that seems to cut very harshly into the left and right of last. Generally when making areas snipers may peak from, I think you should attempt to make some risk by making a closer back wall, forcing a sniper to bear some risk of getting caught when peeking for his shot, the sightlines from main are simply no risk save getting counter-sniped. I think you do a good job of this on the right side with a 45 wall, but the main I can see being very uncomfortable to play around.
If you did want to keep the sightline, this was the rough hold I came up with (Even Ubers)
Hold aside, I have a few notes on last's geometry. I think the last is reminiscent of sunshine with the placement of props and the location of high ground, but has significant changes which make it a potentially difficult point to hold.
This doesn't affect the hold-ability, but I do think that the left side has a weird underground alcove that I don't think would see use from either team, seeing as how the attacking team would likely be making a push to spawn and the defending team would be rotating through spawn - there doesn't really seem to be a use case for the region, I think removing it would have no impact on play.
The walls on both side of the point are a bit of a soldiers playground - but defending soldiers will very rarely be able to stay on them - likely having to jump in from high ground elsewhere rather than beginning on the walls (or else they'd take too much damage and barely be able to stall/hold the point). I think these walls make playing scout or demo defending the area very difficult. While a soldier can simply bomb over or on them, as a scout and demo it forces a rotation out into look backwards to fight. This isn't without precedent, both snakewater and gullywash have similar last capture points, but I think the length of the the left wall could be reduced to allow at least some control without commital. I also think that although the stall/shed is sloped toward the defenders, it'll still prove to be very powerful high ground for attackers to take with great vision and an easy perch to setup a bomb from.
I think pushing out of last is where the gullywash similarities really show, because of the route similarities I'm tempted to envision the same style pushout. I think the vision from the top left (defenders perspective) is great - the see-through catwalk is a really good touch to enabling fast pushouts. I do think the armor-stand area has potential much like gullywash for hiders looking for a backcap or a cheeky kill on a demo trying to lock down the shutter/right "baby door" from players looking to backcap. Pushing out of the upper seems like it'd be very difficult as it's a corridor I would expect to have to push past demo and soldier spam. If a team is committing to an exchange (a common technique on gullywash is to take an exchange in upper on 2-players down, using the time to stall for a backcap or for your spawns to come into the post-uber fight). I can see the attacking team (from their last) having huge difficulty pushing against a demo sat on the gazebo roof where he can see and SPAM all entrances into 2nd.
I think gullywash's upper region works because to watch some doors (shutter from upper) you complete give up the corner you want to be spamming (near the entrence into lobby), and anywhere on the high ground it's very difficult to see anyone trying to get in/out from baby door, allowing for potential flank plays.
This is getting more into the next point, but gullywash also has very tight winding chokes to exit, these can sort of serve as glue, forcing a defending team to be more ready to leave lest they get caught - I think the size of a choke being large also enables the team to play more agressive knowing that their exit isn't as deadly.
SECOND
The biggest issue I noted on second would be the sniper sightline. From the water-region a sniper has a sightline that fully controls both exits the defending team would have - this is a very deadly precedent, as it means there is no escape without dealing with an essentially non-contestable sniper. Keep in mind gullywash has the upper route completely circumvent this sightline.
There is another incontestable sniper sightline that is sure to make holding the main choke rather miserable as the options are either to rotate away losing control of the choke or to rotate in which is vulnerable to both a bomb or the sniper simply rotating to the point
On the topic of holding 2nd, the flank probably will have to play very passive, with there being doors defining where they can get caught, but there being no such similar door the offensive team has to push through in alley (at least not one that is contestable). It is worth noting on gullywash some teams play with a soldier in lobby watching baby door to catch a flanker, and many teams play the demo watching lower with a soldier responsible for spamming the main choke, I think the size of the main makes holding it close potentially difficult, especially as a rotation out means giving up all the high ground AND being unable to leave through upper.
On the note of this access to high ground - keeping in mind a medic would have to use this route to leave through upper, the barrel and the angle this ramp comes in at AND the distance it is from choke (close enough and open enough for spam to come here) this route seems incredibly uninviting. I actually walked into the ramp at a bad angle walking and slid onto the floor - an action that would probably guarantee I would get caught in a situation where I was trying to leave.
As for the choke the wall that does damage to you is interesting, but I think ultimately doesn't actually change anything, the damage is annoying, but as it is only 4 damage ticks, it'll be ignored by a medic beaming the target to clear out the close choke, then simply having a player rotate in to take that space made. If you don't want players standing up there - there is better ways of showing that (such as the sloped roofs you have on the flank). If you do want players standing there but fear its too much high ground - you could slant it (like the shed on last) or bring it closer/lower. Either way I think there should be a decision for or against rather than the current damage tick solution - it's interesting but doesn't really change the flow meaningfully.
MID
Thinking about mid I think you have the same essential routes that gullywash has, with an aggressive right "up" their side, and a passive left where you fight across point for space. The rollout I think is fairly similar, with the demo coming out the choke with the medium health pack ready to lock out the aggressive mid if he spots it.
I think the passive mid feels unusual, if I had to say why it may be because I don't think there is any ground where a soldier can effectively spam regions where I'd expect players to be. The slanted roof above forwards doesn't really give angles or regions to splash save the back wall of point
Ah, it turns out you can stand here:
which is slightly misleading as you can't stand on the similarly styled roof here:
be careful having similar areas that aren't really clear about if you can stand on/go over them. The first image is going to be a very powerful soldier spot that gives instant vision into what mid is being done on top of being able to spam toward that direction. It also gives great control of being able to bomb on a team attempting to cross the point in a more passive mid.
There is a quite ironic low-ground advantage that is worth mentioning, where it is somewhat difficult to spot soldiers in the river, experienced pocket scouts will know how to keep track of these soldiers so I think it is good that there is at least an option for a high bomb.
Overall: I think that most maps that have a route serving as a sort of mid to last shortcut make the route more unappealing (chokey) than your map, I worry that as a result 2nd will probably be very difficult to hold anywhere on disad, though this may not be obvious on first glance. I think that aside, the sniper sightlines on 2nd and last are very deadly - I can definitely see sniper being used here - even on gullywash sniper is powerful enough that some teams have a player spend more time on sniper than whatever class they replace - this map seems to enable sniper further.
Those are all my random thoughts on the map so far, feel free to reach out to me if there are any questions about callouts or plays I mentioned, it's all rather disorganized but I figure having some version of my thoughts has at least potential to be more helpful nothing at all.
I'm looking forward to how the map develops, good luck mapping!
Edit1: The damage on the walls is 5 a tick not 4, this is not really any significantly different, I think all I said still applies. The respawn wavetime SEEMS (I just did a couple of suicide checks) to go DOWN when capping the enemy 2nd, this seems potentially dangerous I don't think any 5cp map I know of does this, I think i recall someone saying the tf2maps prefab had weird numbers like this, just something I'd be cautious of. If you're unsure about how you want to adjust spawn times, just copy from an existing map (or reference the tf2wiki) and balance from there. Gullywash actually (according to the wiki) just has 8.9 respawnwavetime for every point.
@FlipFTW holy crap!!! thanks, I'd have to look thoroughly through this, keep in mind I'm a beginner mapper, so some of this stuff I simply don't know how to fix it properly, but I will try my hardest, thanks !!!!!
Alpha 13
-made choke on street tighter
-replaced curb textures from dev to concrete
-added a back area to second, that contains a stair up to balcony, plus a new entrance to lobby
-moved the packs in truck to the choke near river
-added cover in river
-removed most arches in river
-made the entrance from river to second chokier with the ability to see people entering flank but keeping the cover
-made the walls around last shorter to defend point without being able to commit
-last now caps slower, but not as much as other versions
-respawn times are now shorter and more consistent across the board
-added more cover on last balcony
-clipped most door frames to avoid getting stuck
-added a roof in mid point
-added a new "bats" in middle for high ground plus a plank near river for pogos and high ground
-simplified the arches in middle flank
-made the spikes in choke deal more damage
-simplified the water logs
-fixed a box
-fixed a car that got to last out of nowhere
-replaced truck's model
-roof
-probably more but I did so many lightning changes in less than a day that I literally don't remember
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