Control points without control point gametype

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Nineaxis, Jun 24, 2008.

  1. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    I was brainstorming for a map, and decided that I wanted to do a PL map (Abandoning ctf_borrow, it sucked, but was great for learning). So, I have some questions on feasibility:

    The idea is that it is a one stage, 4-point PL map, and immensely long. However, to counteract everyone taking 5 minutes to run across the map, there will be multiple spawn rooms controlled by CP's. So, basically, every PL point will have a related CP that will control a nearby spawnroom... if BLU caps the CP, they can use the spawnroom, and red spawn is pushed back. You get the point. Attack/Defend without the divided rounds while escorting a cart. Forces a bit more strategy and tactical planning.

    So, is it possible to use control points and have them function as control points without the control point HUD and without Hammer deciding the map is a CP map?

    Does this even make sense to do?

    Feedback?
     
  2. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    Yes, you can have functioning control points in a map without having the CP HUD, you just need to not put in a master control point entity. It just means you won't have the CP HUD, and players won't have any on-screen feedback on how quickly the point is being taken or even what points belong to who.

    Regarding the idea, I'm not sure why the spawnroom changes wouldn't just be triggered by the cart reaching the checkpoints. It seems like that would make more sense, and be a bit more gameplay friendly.
     
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  3. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    I feel stupid now. Kind of helps to see how far capped the point is and know whether or not it is... I was really thinking along the lines of having a more defense friendly payload type, where instead of being forced to move your defense lines with the cart, you could keep them from distanced from it... by having control over where they would need to spawn for efficient offensive attacks...

    Also, for teamwork... coordinating attacks would be much more beneficial than everyone trying to push the cart or cap a point... while being able to slip by the defense means you could push their spawn back if they aren't careful.

    Seems like it might be interesting to try, at least. But that's my opinion, and it's my idea, so it's biased. :p

    Even if you don't think it would work well, any suggestions as to what could make it better?

    And is there anyone who thinks it would be fun to play a huge one round PL map?
     
  4. Spacemonkeynz

    Spacemonkeynz L5: Dapper Member

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    For PL maps, you have the PL hud.

    A four point PL map would be cool with advancing spawns, the last stage of goldrush has an 'advance' spawn for red.


    However you should take a look at pl_mining, that was a really big map with lots of points, and people got lost lots, they would spawn, then run to the other side of the map (even i did it a few times when it came out)

    Imo, it's better to have smaller map, divided by rounds, it keeps the action more consistent.
     
  5. Demitri Omni

    Demitri Omni L2: Junior Member

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    Actually, to be completely honest, it's not technically a seperate spawn, it's just an alternate exit to the regular one.
     
  6. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    Uhhh.... thanks for the notice...?

    The idea would be to make the map large, yet compact, to give the feel of a more realistic and consistent battleground, which would allow for more drawn out battles, instead of having one or two bottlenecks where there will be more intense gameplay, which, when broken through, lead to a more relaxed period where you just push a cart along.

    I wouldn't want to make it large as in open, or with tons of passageways, but a very linear and obvious route along the PL tracks, with distinctive spawn designs and surrounding areas, so, hopefully after a few times playing the map, you can join and instantly realise where you are and where you need to go.

    Following the control point level design basics, the control points would be more open areas, close to the payload tracks but still seperated enough so that the payload area and control point area would have different play areas.

    I'm too bored to type any more... I'll just say, the basic idea is having the tracks follow an oil pipeline across the desert... start at the pump, go to the control center, where the bomb explodes so blu can pirate the pipeline. Use this and specifically the "SCADA" chart to envision the idea... stretches of pipe and specific points of interest.
     
  7. Spacemonkeynz

    Spacemonkeynz L5: Dapper Member

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    Oh sorry, i didn't fully read you post.

    So you want both payload control points and normal control points?

    Should be possible, since the control_point_round is required by the payload system, you should have no trouble using normal control points, just don't tie any rounds or master to them.

    Just set their on cap outputs to control the spawns, I suggest displaying a message to both teams to indicate that the a cp has been capped.


    You can do quite a lot of stuff regarding gameplay in hammer, all it requires is to be creative and a lot of testing to make sure it works right. I was able to get a payload system working before goldrush came out, by using trigger multiples and other entities.
     
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  8. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    Okay, thanks. I intend to do as much playtesting as possible with this, because it is experimental and I got ahead of myself with ctf_borrow and started doing details and displacements without any clue whether or not it would play well...

    Now that I think about it, what if there were no PL control points, so the cart could move freely from the start to finish and back. My main idea with this is to make a PL map that would have good gameplay that could stretch over a long period of time. I personally enjoy playing 2fort on a server with no time limit, and don't mind spending over 30 minutes playing one round. So letting the cart freely move back without getting caught on a PL-CP might help this... as well as letting the spawn point capture points be able to be recapped by red. So blu isn't just moving forward but trying to maintain it. I really wouldn't want the map to become a useless deathmatch on 32-player servers...