[Contest Entry] pl_silo

[Chilly]

We just screwed around on here with 6 people and found it to have a lot of issues:

1. The cart model doesn't move, so everyone had to follow the blue light around the map to push the "cart".

2. In the silo, you can build at the bottom and the sentry will pass through the floor of the platform. Once it's partway through it'll shoot everyone on top. An engineer can build using the current position of the platform, meaning you get sentries and dispensers hovering midair in the silo.

3. After the platform hit the sentries and moved to the top, it flipped on its edge. Once someone touched the "cart" again, it moved back to normal, but then moved at an angle while descending. It finally switched to perfectly flat again once it reached the sentries below.

For balance issues I can't really comment since we didn't have that many people on. However, I would suggest adding an alternate exit out of red's final spawn. This would be a tunnel that's locked until BLU gets the 3rd checkpoint, and then it opens to allow players to go to BLU's first spawn (do they have a forward one? I wasn't sure). This would allow RED some form of defense and a chance to push back instead of just being trapped in a hole they can't escape.

 

[Altaco]

Crap, sorry about the stupid cart bug, Changed some cart settings by mistake and didn't get the chance to test it because I was in a rush, definitely be fixed in the next alpha.

FLOOR, thanks a ton for the feedback. I'll see what I can do to help blu get more of an advantage there. Also, where was it you'd suggest to add the one-way gate in that shack, and where you you suggest it be put? I can't quite tell from your drawing.

 

[FLOOR_MASTER]

Altaco: I'm not sure where the best exit would be. My first reaction would be the 2nd level on the balcony (next to to the railings), where the exit is a bit more exposed. This would still allow RED to set up in the "strong" area I mentioned but provide BLU a reasonable chance to flank RED. You will probably need to widen the BLU spawn exit area a bit to accomodate the new path. Naturally, the new path should be locked until CP1 is taken (I'd even recommend having a delay before it's unlocked to give RED a chance to set up - 30-60 seconds?).

I'm really looking forward to seeing how the final shaft area plays, so I hope these suggestions help balance out CP2.

 

[Altaco]

Oh, so let me see if I get what you're saying: You think there should be a passage from that first area to the balcony with the railing/into that building?

 

[FLOOR_MASTER]

Essentially, yes. Something along the lines of...

...but this is just a rough idea. I do think the entrance should be outside of the spawn area. The underground tunnel entrance may need to be reconfigured a bit.

 

[Altaco]

Essentially, yes. Something along the lines of...

...but this is just a rough idea. I do think the entrance should be outside of the spawn area. The underground tunnel entrance may need to be reconfigured a bit.

Alright. In the latest alpha I've completely removed that underground tunnel and the basement, it made it way too hard for red to defend properly in that first area.

I've also added a new sniper deck straight across from the area with the railing and widened that area up to allow for a shack sorta thing on the side of the building that can give blu a good advantage, basically how you drew it. I may move it so that the entrance is a bit further up so blu can't just walk practically straight from their spawn into the enemy base.

I'm thinking instead of it being linked to time, it could be a certain point on the track. I'd need some kind of indication of where that would be (custom model time :3), and maybe wires strung from it to the door so people get it.

 

[TheDarkerSideofYourShadow]

If its at a certain point of the track, what happens if blu is struggling to push it up that far?

 

[Altaco]

If its at a certain point of the track, what happens if blu is struggling to push it up that far?

I wouldn't make it way far up, maybe a bit before it curves to go underneath the big building.

I really wanna see how this all fits but my tf2 files got corrupted and now I have to reinstall it.

 

[Altaco]

Updated thread with more screenshots, a5 upload coming soon!

EDIT: a5 is here :3

 

[FLOOR_MASTER]

I'll give more detailed feedback after we run a5 more, but here's some immediate reactions from a quick (2-round) 15v15 playtest:

* The 2 rounds resulted in a win for BLU and a win for RED (BLU was held back at the 3rd point). I wouldn't read into this since everyone was new to the map, but it's just FYI.
* Massive improvement in the layout in the main CP2 area. It's roomy and isn't heavily favored towards BLU.
* CP1 is too easy to capture. It would benefit from being 1.5-2x as long as it is now (or slightly longer with the CP moved forward a bit) and reconfigured so that RED isn't funneled into one point of entry. I have some ideas for how it can be improved but I'll draw them out later.
* RED's spawnpoint is pushed back unreasonably far (to the bottom of the silo) when CP1 is taken.
* The main building around CP2 (with all the ramps in it) could use simplification and general improvements in player mobility. More thoughts on this later.
* The silo area is interesting but needs to be much more spacious. Rather than zig-zag/circular ramp structures, I think it should be greatly simplified - very large rooms for fighting with very large ramps. Opportunities to rocket/demo jump with health up top to compensate. *NO ELEVATORS*. Right now, it seems more of a spammy gimmick. There's potential, though. I'm hoping you can think of something but I might have some ideas if you really need them.

 

[MangyCarface]

The map appears to have an outrageous number of spiral staircases, or staircases with multiple turns in them... idk what to say about that, just noticing

One complaint: after cp2 is taken, a one-way door becomes available to BLU outside of their spawn. However, due to its positioning, it looks like an exit from spawn. Add a flashing blu sign pointing down to it when that pathway opens up, or no one will ever use it.

 

[Altaco]

The map appears to have an outrageous number of spiral staircases, or staircases with multiple turns in them... idk what to say about that, just noticing

One complaint: after cp2 is taken, a one-way door becomes available to BLU outside of their spawn. However, due to its positioning, it looks like an exit from spawn. Add a flashing blu sign pointing down to it when that pathway opens up, or no one will ever use it.

I added the big blue arrow sign, should I add another? Or remove the door there altogether?

EDIT: Alright FLOOR, helpful as always. These maptests are what make me keep working on silo :3

 

[Galago]

I think your indoor lighting needs a bit of work. It's very concentrated; think about putting overhead lights, using light_spot, etc.

 

[Altaco]

I think your indoor lighting needs a bit of work. It's very concentrated; think about putting overhead lights, using light_spot, etc.

Most of the map isn't detailed yet. I do proper lighting when I detail.

 

[FLOOR_MASTER]

More specific feedback...

The first CP is on the short side. I'd recommend lengthening the track somehow. The dotted path is just one idea, but it's not something I'm attached to. There's also an issue with the indicated area being spammy:

The existing alternate path at the bottom of the screenshot can be modified to help reduce the spam in that area and give RED a way to push through (I wouldn't give RED a path into the building "above" the point that BLU has access to). You could retain the existing sniper's nest but add a door below it that leads to the lower-rightmost building. You'll need to flatten the long ramp and move the the ramp over to the lower-rightmost building. The new lower door will follow an identical path to the lower-right building (but one floor below the existing path):

... this might not be the best idea but it's one that makes use of the existing geometry.

The area shown in the next 3 images is highly trafficked and would benefit from wider paths to reduce bottlenecks:

This is a major chokepoint and is in need of an alternate path for BLU. The new path indicated is most compatible with the existing geometry:

The silo definitely needs work. In general, it needs much more breathing room, wider ramps, less ramps that wind back and forth, and much more open areas. This is a minor gripe: the shaft that drops into water is confusing for RED and looks unrealistic/ridiculous - I'd recommend removing it entirely

 

[Ida]

Gameday feedback:

Final RED spawn makes me a sad panda. I spent 30 seconds or so trying to find a way out, and when I learned the way, it still took 15 or so.

Otherwise a really likeable map. It was a lot of fun. I really hope you can find a fix for that infamous nosedive, though.


This just needs to...get outta there. It looks really weird to have a thick, huge cord snake through a building like that.

 

[S3BB0_L1C1OUS]

Map was fun to play, but I also didn't like to climp also the way up as red and got lost a lot.

This has been addressed already but looks just too funy to no post it:

 

[TheDarkerSideofYourShadow]

Overall I liked it. Biggest issues were the cart turning, stickies on the cart, and the red spawn location (which you said you fixed). It does seem extremely difficult to get out of the red final spawn, but that might be due to lack of textures. I would consider adding an additional sign to the right blu spawn exit, just so that they are aware of the side passage. The ones on the middle and right are good, but if you go out the left, you'll miss it. Here are some other random things.

The shadow on this one. Just add an info_lighting.

I only saw this happen once at the top, but that could cause an issue if it tips too far and you can't jump on it.

Small visual bug.

 

[bob+M|M+]

lol I love the ending of this map. I think it has some great potential.

Some more thoughts: It would be good to include arrows in the next version. From the little playtesting I've done, it seems the alternative routes are underused, and instead of developing a feel for the entire map players are just using the main route.

I also shared the same feeling about the red spawn room at the end. I think the time it takes to walk up the pathway is too long.