Chasm

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Freyja, Aug 29, 2009.

  1. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    This is going to be my first released map.

    It's a work in progress and It's being constantly changed as I go along. (No matter how hard I try, my sketch never seems to get into hammer in the same way as it was drawn...)

    Basically its a payload map set in a large canyon that was once used for gemstone mining (custom textures, all authentically original), but now houses a large hyrdo-electric dam owned by RED corp (damning is deliberately spelled that way), and thus the canyon is bone dry.
    It has large outdoor areas and many indoor areas as contrast. It has many paths to traverse up the cliffs for snipers and long range classes, and perhaps engineers to rain down on people, and mine shafts for bypassing them.

    RED is using the power generated from this dam to power something largely evil in typical RED fashion, and so BLU, like always, hijacked one of the old conveniently placed mining tracks and are using it to push a bomb right to the base of the dam! And Kablooy! (Imagine the demoman saying that) and suddenly water floods the long dry chasm, drowning everyone not on high ground.

    I hope to have custom animations but I've never done something like that before, so you may just have to use your imagination.

    -----

    A2 released.
    You'll notice that there's no 3D skybox as of -yet-, but there will be, probably soon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2009
  2. Mr.Blob

    Mr.Blob L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Lovely displacements in the first picture, but what the hell is that in the background?
    It's looking nice though.
     
  3. pl

    pl L5: Dapper Member

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    First thing, please fix the background :(

    And I think the first screenshot needs some sort of cover, because it looks very plain.
    Also, can you change that brown wood texture in the second screenshot? It looks like it's meant to be used for the floor :)

    Looking good so far!
     
  4. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Thats a stray brush that's placed there to remind me that there should be a ledge there when I get around to turning to cliffs into displacements

    Is that in what I said above or the horrible tiling?

    Indeed it does. What do you suggest I put there? I'm not really sure apart from more rocks, and we can't have that.

    I think it is a floor texture, but the other wood textures look a bit flat on such a large building. I'll see what I can do though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  5. Omnomnick

    Omnomnick L6: Sharp Member

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    Some areas of this map look really great, where others contrast that - I would expect this seeing as it's pre-alpha. But fixing that cliff face texture and adding displacements or a small building to one side of that long cart way would be great!

    Keep it up, looking nice. :)
     
  6. Bermuda Cake

    Bermuda Cake L9: Fashionable Member

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    For cover, how about an old boat house that has now dried out? Or an abandoned boat...
     
  7. AntonJ3000

    AntonJ3000 I am inactive and make horrible maps

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    Looking nice, Except for that tiling issue O_O, just do :faceedittool:
    And then select the weirdly-tiled thingy and do this:

    [​IMG]
    Not too hard.


    And you don't really need to start with displacements in Alpha 1 :p
     
  8. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    I have a funny way of doing alphas.

    I was going to block everything out but then I went inside and my eyes started to hurt so I textured the general stuff as a draft to get the idea and not strain my brain.

    True, it is easy, but I've never really had an issue with it. Probably because I've been to busy trying to get the buildings to look good xD
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  9. tovilovan

    tovilovan L6: Sharp Member

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    This looks nice for an alpha!! I have to agree about the background and from the looks of the pictures, theres a bit too much sightlines in all of the pictures. Try and look at what valve have done with their payload maps. To avoid huge sightlines (both for balance and optimization purposes) they've worked a lot with the cart going in and out of buildings (goldrush) and with lots of twists and turns (like in badwater).

    Ill just write what I come up with when I look at the pictures. For number one I'd suggest a building or a cave in the middle of the picture to split the map into different areas. For the second, the bridge works well but a building could also work, also to give red a bit more places to build a defense. And for the last picture, maybe split the big room into two smaller?

    Just my quick suggestions. I like what you've done on the map so far, if you just fix the background I'll be sure to check it out later =D :texlock:
     
  10. Fraz

    aa Fraz Blu Hatte, Greyscale Backdrop.

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    Screenshots look nice, however a little bit open, try using props, rocks etc to break up sniper sightlines.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  11. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Yeah, I made the canyon walls then discovered the beautiful:texlockscale: tool :D Never got around to fixing them :p
     
  12. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Sorry for the double post, but I've been doing some of the changes you guys suggested.

    1. The background is fixed ;)

    And now some screenshots:
    Boathouse over the track (the track was built after the river was there, obviously, but the boathouse is still there!)

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    And a custom texture, reflects stuff (not here, I havn't built the cubemaps yet but it will)

    [​IMG]
     
  13. pl

    pl L5: Dapper Member

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    Oooh, looking good. It's starting to come together now :)
     
  14. Dr. ROCKZO

    Dr. ROCKZO L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Here we go!
     
  15. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Uploaded Alpha 2. Tell me if you find any problems (or if the custom textures dont work)
     
  16. Xi.Cynx

    aa Xi.Cynx Former Alias: †Blade†

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    Alright, well after just running through it, I can tell you it waaaaaaaaay to big.if I were you I would try and shrink that bad boy down to about 2/3rds the size it is now. I think I can say with confidence that it is twice the length of badwater.

    Second thing, maybe try to add some more height variance to the track? The team pushing the cart can get bored pretty easily if there is not a lot of change in how they need to take their battle.

    I'm hoping your added a forward spawn for blu as they will def need one so those poor poor heavies don't have to run if the team feels the need to not have an engy. I'll call in heavy abuse if you don't add one!

    The displacement cliffs are decent and I like the step up area around the first couple turns. The way you have the track/area setup going from point C to the final one is veeeeery nice. But again, a little more height variance in the environment would help for more interesting gameplay.(like... side cliffs with wood ramps or some paths going up to them, maybe a couple of lower areas with some cover, possibly a few buildings.)

    I like the area between B and C as well because it does have what you could call a little bit of height variance. and that building will help keep the cart movement going in and coming out of it a little tricky(which people like)

    I would make sure your not copying exact bush for brush layouts of any buildings into your map, they'll be spotted easily. Especially if it's been in a valve map. Like that first side building going towards A, I can totally tell that's either from Hoodoo or Badlands. Same with the Red spawn, by the dam area, it looks like it's right out of hydro. Maybe a more unique use or setup of the same stuff will allow for less of that appearance resemblance factor to happen.
     
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  17. Waif

    Waif L7: Fancy Member

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    Ok like blade I ran through your map and there a few major issues:

    - Map is too wide in many areas
    -Not enough height variation on track/ in general
    -Too big sightlines
    -Lack of prgression feeling, its all very similar until the very end, perhaps make it so the further you get into it the more buildings there are- you have sort of done this but not enough

    Other smaller issues:

    -No spectator entry point (you join the server looking in some weird place)
    - Only one exit for blue at start from spawn to outside, big no-no
    - Buildings at end seem too big and spacious
    -End area is very flat and un-interesting, add a slope or something in the likes (also has a pretty big sightline)
    - Massive sightline straight down near cap 1 towards blue spawn
    -Lack of detail in some places, but it is an alpha :p, especially vegetaion, perhaps add water in areas seeing its the bottom of a chasm, more little sheds/ shacks/ buildings in general (also for gameplay variance)

    anyway Ill add some screenshots soonish, just uploading them atm and wanted to get these things off my head before I forgot :)

    On the plus side the idea is there, you have done well with the displacements throughout the map (although some need sewing), some areas look quite nice (the boat building, interior of end building, your cave/tunnel bits, opal? brushes and those very shiney pipes!) and the layout in general isn't too bad.

    Don't give up hope yet, just fix the underlying issues, even if it means remaking the map .
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
  18. Waif

    Waif L7: Fancy Member

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    Double post, but who cares:p
    Screenshots as promised:

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1722155/pl_chasm_a20000.jpg
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1722155/pl_chasm_a20001.jpg
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1722155/pl_chasm_a20011.jpg
    Ok a lot of those rocks have their origins embeded in gemoetry so they render a darker colour. You might have to make a info_lighting (or whatever it is) that you set the props light origin to so that the whole prop isn't discoloured.


    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1722155/pl_chasm_a20002.jpg

    This sightline is way too big and you have to do something about it. Perhaps add a hill in the middle or make the track S shape from above with cliffs around it so the sightline is blocked.

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1722155/pl_chasm_a20003.jpg

    Only one initial exit for blue is harsh, need to add one or two more around here somehwere ( maybe outta the cliff?)

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1722155/pl_chasm_a20005.jpg

    Un-sewed displacement here, check your map for these- there may be more.

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1722155/pl_chasm_a20006.jpg

    Last area has too big of a sightline, perhaps add a slope like badwater or/and move it further froward towards the canyone turn .

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1722155/pl_chasm_a20007.jpg

    Too big and empty.

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1722155/pl_chasm_a20008.jpg
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1722155/pl_chasm_a20009.jpg
    I'm not sure about your knowledge with optimisation but I hoped you put a big nodraw brush in the middle of that central cliff :p

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1722155/pl_chasm_a20010.jpg

    See how the ground near the track is so flat?
    This would make playing there quite boring and not great fun for people pushing the cart. Remember that hieght adds variation and enjoyment to your map, you should use it more so on the track.

    Hope that helped (better have earnt me a thanks :p)
     
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  19. Tapp

    Tapp L10: Glamorous Member

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    A little bit of cover here and there never hurts, especially around key gameplay elements. Also, try breaking up the colours a bit. A few sheets of metal (like those in hydro) go a long way in terms of gameplay & aesthetics.
     
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  20. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Thank you for some feedback! It's much appreciated. I will work on scaling down the map slightly and making some more height variance.

    The building near B is actually completely original. The one near the final point is definitely close to Hyrdo, I loved that part of Hydro and thought it suited so built it to match Hydro. It's not copy'd and paste'd though. All of it is original just using the same textures. The hydro building is much bigger and whatnot.

    All the cliffs have no draw brushes behind them, as a matter of a fact. I havn't done much in the way of optimizing yet, however, just a few hint brushes here and there.
    And I have no idea why the pipes are so shiny!

    I was thinking of the possibility of adding another building in the corner were red's "shortcut" comes out, just to break up that big open area. Possible?

    I could raise the final point up so you could climb a hill to get to it, or even force the track to go over one of the "hilly bits" on the side of the riverbed for some height variation.

    To scale down the map, I could bring in the middle part how it loops around, making it a much shorter P kind of shape. Thank you much for the suggestions, this is my first map and I wasn't sure if I was getting it right. It's great to have some idea where I was going wrong. I shall get to work! :D