Bomb Factory a7

[VelvetFistIronGlove]

I think you have a really good gamemode here. The timer on the flag negates the biggest flaw that A/D ctf suffered, namely the fact that a cap occurs instantly when you reach the cp with the flag. With the timer, you have to make sure you reach the cap at the right time to blow it: too early and you'll get shot and the enemy will take the flag off you; too late and you'll explode hilariously and uselessly.

I agree that the currently favoured strategy is to hang back with the flag, then make a final run, but the game today showed several times that your enemies have an effective counter-strategy to that: to invade your terrority, kill the flag carrier and take the flag off him, and then bomb your own points.

I think it might help if the flag timer got a small bump whenever it changed teams, something on the order of 5-15 seconds (but never exceeding its initial 45 seconds). A smaller bump would help in last-minute saves of your own point (although arguably it's better not to have that option), but a larger bump would encourage more back-and-forth of the flag without needing to camp the flag spawn.

Something else that was mentioned in chat in the gameday today was reducing it to two points per side. DON'T do that. The play time with three each was good, and having three gives you the feeling that you can afford to lose a point, encouraging both teams to be offensive rather than defensive at the start of a round.

 

[ScorpioUprising]

I think that my call for two points may have been too hasty, though I do think simplifying the layout of the points a bit would help greatly with player comprehension.

That said, I think the real weakpoint of the map right now is the middle area. It feels fairly wide open, which would help weaken sentry placement, but you have a lot of props that block LOS and give sentries perfect placement. I'm thinking here specifically of the train tracks with the lower platforms you have to jump across. I remember several times when I would go to jump over one of those, only to find a level three sentry on the other side, ready to wreck me. I'd recommend removing those spots, which should give people coming out of the doors more view, and a higher chance to fall back through the doors should they find something on the other side that they can't handle.

As I mentioned during the playtest, the metal in the map is a bit excessive. I would recommend treating this kind of like a 5cp, in that you should only ever really have medium or small ammos, and even then you should keep those to a minimum. The middle area suffered a great deal in this regard: the large ammo box up top seems a bit like overkill, and the sentry placement on the stairs seems to cement the team which holds the middle a bit too much.

Just a reminder, I think it would be a good idea to playerclip most of the rooftops. The height advantage offered by such a vantage is pretty unnecessary, and would make pushing with the bomb even harder than it already is.

 

[Arkosis]

Great map, I had an awesome time testing it.

I only had a few gripes. In the middle point, I think you should put a handrail on some of the open areas (which lead to death it) underneath the middle area. I think it would be also a good idea to keep the danger tape from the explosion areas, as a warning to players to come near that they might be set on fire.

Other than that great map. I'd love to see what it's like finished. You should really release a prefab for this style of gamemode, I think it would do really well with a few other maps in this kinda format!

 

[Dustoxx]

i had so much fun with this map, good job

 

[lockitup]

so we got about 5 v 5 tonight, and I finally noticed the lag / fps drop. It made the map extremely difficult to play. However everyone does really like the concept...so fix that optimization in next release please!!!

 

[The_Ulf]

Thanks so much guys, AWESOME feedback!

I think it might help if the flag timer got a small bump whenever it changed teams, something on the order of 5-15 seconds (but never exceeding its initial 45 seconds). A smaller bump would help in last-minute saves of your own point (although arguably it's better not to have that option), but a larger bump would encourage more back-and-forth of the flag without needing to camp the flag spawn.

ohmygodIloveyouthisisBRILLIANT. I'm going to start testing this now.

Something else that was mentioned in chat in the gameday today was reducing it to two points per side. DON'T do that. The play time with three each was good, and having three gives you the feeling that you can afford to lose a point, encouraging both teams to be offensive rather than defensive at the start of a round.

I think that my call for two points may have been too hasty, though I do think simplifying the layout of the points a bit would help greatly with player comprehension.

I guess that's all true. At some point, someone should try out a 2point v 2point map - after I get my ass around to simplifying and releasing the entity setup.

That said, I think the real weakpoint of the map right now is the middle area. It feels fairly wide open, which would help weaken sentry placement, but you have a lot of props that block LOS and give sentries perfect placement. I'm thinking here specifically of the train tracks with the lower platforms you have to jump across. I remember several times when I would go to jump over one of those, only to find a level three sentry on the other side, ready to wreck me. I'd recommend removing those spots, which should give people coming out of the doors more view, and a higher chance to fall back through the doors should they find something on the other side that they can't handle.

Yeah I've got so much to learn about layout and sentry placement. I'm hoping working towards this competitive ctf contest will help (I'll be uploading my submission soon).

As I mentioned during the playtest, the metal in the map is a bit excessive. I would recommend treating this kind of like a 5cp, in that you should only ever really have medium or small ammos, and even then you should keep those to a minimum. The middle area suffered a great deal in this regard: the large ammo box up top seems a bit like overkill, and the sentry placement on the stairs seems to cement the team which holds the middle a bit too much.

Yeah - I have no item placement experience so I decided to go overboard, planing on scaling it back. So now I'm drastically reducing metal placement.

Just a reminder, I think it would be a good idea to playerclip most of the rooftops. The height advantage offered by such a vantage is pretty unnecessary, and would make pushing with the bomb even harder than it already is.

I only had a few gripes. In the middle point, I think you should put a handrail on some of the open areas (which lead to death it) underneath the middle area. I think it would be also a good idea to keep the danger tape from the explosion areas, as a warning to players to come near that they might be set on fire.

Sounds good - I'll get on these.

 

[hadlock]

This is really fantastic; this is the game mode TF2 has been needing for quite some time. I know I'm going to get some :facepalm: remarks here for saying this, but this game mechanic, mixed with no-respawn TF2 arena would make for some interesting demolition maps (yes I am totally referencing de_dust and de_dust2). Gravelpit style maps have never been very popular in the mapping community, but I think you have a winner here that could change that.

Have you considered, or have you already posted a "bomb factory" entity prefab anywhere? I'd love to play around with it if you don't mind.

 

[Mexican Apple Thief]

Gravelpit style maps have never been very popular in the mapping community, but I think you have a winner here that could change that.

That's more of a "hard to do" unpopular than a hating it. I thought most people like gravel pit but I could be wrong.

 

[The_Ulf]

Have you considered, or have you already posted a "bomb factory" entity prefab anywhere? I'd love to play around with it if you don't mind.

I SO WANT TO but updates keep coming that make me want to revise my entity setup to accomplish the same things better - which is great! But, coupled with school, keeps setting me back and slowing me down.

I am certain one of you out there will be able to design a better layout to make use of this game type and I want to see that happen.

 

[lockitup]

I know you are busy and everything but I'd really like to see the next update fix the major lag on the map if possible. Even a7 without lag the map would be tons of fun.

 

[Pilk]

This is incredibly fun. Were you going to release the entity setup at any stage for anyone who might be interested in make a map with the same game mode?

The map currently has those optimization issues as you said, but apart from the the look and feel makes sense and is appealing.

 

[PMAvers]

One more vote in the "damn, this is fun" category.

Dunno if anyone's pointed it out yet, but it seems that every time a round ends, the CTF GPS pointer splits off back into the normal two-flag version.

 

[The_Ulf]

Dunno if anyone's pointed it out yet, but it seems that every time a round ends, the CTF GPS pointer splits off back into the normal two-flag version.

OH MY GOD I KNOW AND IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY. :cursing:

This is one of the only glitches that's keeping me from releasing the entity setup. I'm certain there's a combination of flag type and settings that'll make the hybrid HUD respect neutral flags as single and not go crazy and I cannot figure it out for the life of me and have no damn free time this semester to get back to hammer and it makes me so damn sad yeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

 

[FBD]

damn >.< im making a map, it was originally strictly CTF, but then i was messing arround replacing the model with a bomb... i thought it through, and thought of baisicly this >.< i found this today, and for the life of me, i cant figure out how you did all that setup.. i can't figure out custom sounds, bomb noises, etc...
and about the "you have to suicide to win" um, not sure if that was changed, but if you just drop the flag on the CP, it still goes off, just have a sniper there to stop anybody

 

[Sergis]

bow down to the grandfather of csf





sry for the necro

 

[The_Ulf]

bow down to the grandfather of csf





sry for the necro

I'm honored :blushing:

 

[tyler]

We tried to play this today, but some update between now and 2010 broke your logic.

 

[The_Ulf]

We tried to play this today, but some update between now and 2010 broke your logic.

Oh god xD

My greatest regret in the past two years has been not hanging out here more and getting back to these... maybe this is a sign that it is time to drop everything and return.

 

[Prestige]

if you fix the entities i will make 15 fail maps with the gamemode

 

[PMAvers]

Oh, man, this map. Had almost forgotten about it.

I wonder if any of the Special Delivery stuff was what was behind the breaking. Although the SD HUD might finally be a way to get the bomb indicator to not be a spaz.